Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Legacy Products > Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-12-2007, 05:49 PM
BusyBoxSt7 BusyBoxSt7 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: TX
Posts: 35
Default severe LATENCY on AUX problem.

I used to run a digi 002, pt le 6.9 on a G5 dual 2.0 and sometimes had to run at 2048 hardware buffer to keep it running smooth during a mix.. never had severe latency problems. But....

current system
HD1 accel pcie, PT 7.3.1
mac pro 2.66 w/ 3 GB ram
lynx aurora 16 (love it!), NO digi 192/96 needed of course
running both TDM and RTAS

THE ISSUE
Any time I use an aux channel (say I'm affecting both OH channels the same) to put plugins on, I get severe slapback-ish lag on the aux. I mean you can watch the meters move obviously behind their source track's meters. The only way to reduce it is LOWERING the hardware buffer (in playback engine dialog) to 512 or even 256 sometimes. I find myself mixing at 256 then upping it to 512 to get through a bounce. I thought the hardware buffer worked the other way around???

The auto delay compensation (ADC) has NO obvious effect on it, regardless of it's setting.

Somebody shine some light on this oddity.

PS. it's been doing this ever since I bought the HD1.
__________________
Stephen Hudson
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-13-2007, 01:43 AM
crizdee's Avatar
crizdee crizdee is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Brighton, UK
Posts: 10,507
Default Re: severe LATENCY on AUX problem.

Quote:

THE ISSUE
Any time I use an aux channel (say I'm affecting both OH channels the same) to put plugins on, I get severe slapback-ish lag on the aux. I mean you can watch the meters move obviously behind their source track's meters. The only way to reduce it is LOWERING the hardware buffer (in playback engine dialog) to 512 or even 256 sometimes. I find myself mixing at 256 then upping it to 512 to get through a bounce. I thought the hardware buffer worked the other way around???

The auto delay compensation (ADC) has NO obvious effect on it, regardless of it's setting.

Somebody shine some light on this oddity.

Hi,

What setting have you got the ADC set to? short? long? (in playback settings)
What plugins are you using on the aux, and are you mixing TDM and RTAS by any chance!
What colour is the reported delay comp showing for the aux channel?
Are you using RTAS plugs, then changing the buffer size?!

Chris
__________________
PT MAC Troubleshooting... http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=54888

Producer, Engineer,
UKmastering Mixing & Mastering
Blinders_Columbia top 40 UK album charts
Slow Readers Club Joy Of The Return #9 UK album charts

www.ukmastering.com


PT10.3.10 Mountain Lion HD6 accel Magma PE6R4 D Command 32 MacPro 12 Core 3.46ghz UAD-2 Octo x2. Manley Vari-Mu, Manley Massive Passive, SSL VHD, ADL600, Grove Tubes ViPre, Tube-Tech CL-1B. Hafler TRM active monitoring.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-13-2007, 10:56 AM
BusyBoxSt7 BusyBoxSt7 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: TX
Posts: 35
Default Re: severe LATENCY on AUX problem.

-ADC I've tried at all 3 settings to NO effect.

-I'm not "mixing" TDM/Rtas/TDM/rtas, but am sometimes using say: rtas->rtas->tdm->tdm... It screws up though even w/ just one RTAS on an aux (like AltiVerb6). But I don't think it's related to AV6 cause it does it w/ auxs that don't have it.

-Where do I find the color for Delay Comp? (I just switched from an 002 recently)

-About "RTAS then changing the buffer size" what exactly do you mean? I have to right now sometimes cause anything over 512 (or even 256 w/ some mixes) get lagged but I'll need more than that to bounce down. Perhaps using the old "use a master aux and rerecord to a stereo track in PT" would allow me to avoid needing to change it to bounce. BUT, please explain what the problem is w/ changing the buffer. Obviously it's supposed to be changed between tracking (set low) times and mixing times (supposed to be set higher although mine obviously doesn't work right or I don't) during a session.

thanks for your help w/ this HD newby. it'd be awesome if they put THIS stuff at the beginning of a method one DVD! haha.
__________________
Stephen Hudson
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-13-2007, 12:26 PM
crizdee's Avatar
crizdee crizdee is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Brighton, UK
Posts: 10,507
Default Re: severe LATENCY on AUX problem.

Quote:
-ADC I've tried at all 3 settings to NO effect.

-I'm not "mixing" TDM/Rtas/TDM/rtas, but am sometimes using say: rtas->rtas->tdm->tdm... It screws up though even w/ just one RTAS on an aux (like AltiVerb6). But I don't think it's related to AV6 cause it does it w/ auxs that don't have it.

-Where do I find the color for Delay Comp? (I just switched from an 002 recently)

-About "RTAS then changing the buffer size" what exactly do you mean? I have to right now sometimes cause anything over 512 (or even 256 w/ some mixes) get lagged but I'll need more than that to bounce down. Perhaps using the old "use a master aux and rerecord to a stereo track in PT" would allow me to avoid needing to change it to bounce. BUT, please explain what the problem is w/ changing the buffer. Obviously it's supposed to be changed between tracking (set low) times and mixing times (supposed to be set higher although mine obviously doesn't work right or I don't) during a session.

thanks for your help w/ this HD newby. it'd be awesome if they put THIS stuff at the beginning of a method one DVD! haha.
Hi,

The track that has the greatest amount of delay compensation is displayed in orange (the delay comp number that is) and when a track has exceeded the delay compensation it turns red.

The amount of delay caused by RTAS plugs is linked to the buffer setting!! so changing the buffer after you've started to mix, will cause the rtas plugs delay to change. this is especailly a problem when mixing and matching RTAS/TDM/RTAS etc. basically if you double the size of your buffer the delay for RTAS plugs also increases by 50%

Chris
__________________
PT MAC Troubleshooting... http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=54888

Producer, Engineer,
UKmastering Mixing & Mastering
Blinders_Columbia top 40 UK album charts
Slow Readers Club Joy Of The Return #9 UK album charts

www.ukmastering.com


PT10.3.10 Mountain Lion HD6 accel Magma PE6R4 D Command 32 MacPro 12 Core 3.46ghz UAD-2 Octo x2. Manley Vari-Mu, Manley Massive Passive, SSL VHD, ADL600, Grove Tubes ViPre, Tube-Tech CL-1B. Hafler TRM active monitoring.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-13-2007, 03:03 PM
BusyBoxSt7 BusyBoxSt7 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: TX
Posts: 35
Default Re: severe LATENCY on AUX problem.

Quote:

The track that has the greatest amount of delay compensation is displayed in orange (the delay comp number that is) and when a track has exceeded the delay compensation it turns red.

The amount of delay caused by RTAS plugs is linked to the buffer setting!! so changing the buffer after you've started to mix, will cause the rtas plugs delay to change. this is especailly a problem when mixing and matching RTAS/TDM/RTAS etc. basically if you double the size of your buffer the delay for RTAS plugs also increases by 50%
Chris
Where is the color for delay comp shown? i.e. "delay comp #"

-If changing the buffer setting messes everything up, is it always necessary to finish all tracking before mixing (since you may have to lower the buffer for mixing)?

-So what is the workaround? What should I set the buffer to before starting mixing? Does it have to somehow match up w/ whether the TDM is set to 'none', 'short', or 'long'?

-I thought delay compensation (one of the main selling points of HD) was supposed to be automatic. Does it not work w/ RTAS?

Sorry, I'm just confused by all this and haven't found any clear explanation in my reference guide. My frustration's not w/ you of course. Thank you for the help.
__________________
Stephen Hudson
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-13-2007, 03:19 PM
Stig Eliassen's Avatar
Stig Eliassen Stig Eliassen is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Norway @ Studio Varmt & Trangt
Posts: 7,455
Default Re: severe LATENCY on AUX problem.

It sounds to me that you haven't turned ADC on? I mean, you've obviously set it to either short or long in the playback engine, but have you checked it under Options (menu) > Delay Compensation?
__________________
Studio rig - Pro Tools|HDX 2018.7 | Logic Pro X.4.2 | Avid HD I/O (8x8x8) | 6-core 3.33 Westmere w/24GB RAM | OS 10.12.3 | D-Command ES | Eleven Rack | Vienna Ensemble Pro 5
Mobile rig - Macbook Pro i7 w/16GB RAM | UA Apollo 8p | Pro Tools|HD 2018.3 | Logic Pro X.4.2 | OS 10.12.6
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-13-2007, 03:31 PM
jjhuntfox jjhuntfox is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Portland,OR,USA
Posts: 969
Default Re: severe LATENCY on AUX problem.

Based on the Tapeop thread you are using Altiverb 6. I have found Altiverb 6 to be very buggy and I have gone back to Altiverb 5. I had some severe latency with AV 6 but there were other problems too. It sounded like a delay / reverb box. (Yes I muted the direct signal because I use it on an AUX track) It lost all of my AV 5 presets thank goodness they came back with AV 5.

Remove AV 6 and see if that fixes the problem. You can re-install it later if it isn't.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-13-2007, 06:18 PM
BusyBoxSt7 BusyBoxSt7 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: TX
Posts: 35
Default Re: severe LATENCY on AUX problem.

huntfox:
AV6 could have issues but I've got more general issues to fix first.

PT Lover:
nope, delay comp checked on at that location as well. great idea though.

SOME CONCLUSIONS:
did find the delay comp readouts under "view", "edit window". I had no clue about that (thanks guys!). Now I understand the way buffer affects the RTAS (well, in auxs). I use RTAS on the master which puts it into the red but that's fine (right?) cause it all comes out equally late.

"new" questions:
From the delay comp meters I see that putting an RTAS on an AUX (at least a drum one) really ups the delay. Is this because the aux's delay is somehow multiplied by the number of channels feeding it or what? I mean by comparison the RTAS on individual tracks show minimal delay, like "1" or so. Also, while the buffer really effects the aux rtas plugs, it does nothing to the individual tracks that have rtas on them.

samples:
-on an aux: tdm massey CT4= "5", tdm L2007= "133", rtas 2007= anywhere from "612" to "15000" depending on the hardware buffer.
-on an individual track: tdm 2007= "133", rtas= "128" regardless of hardware buffer
__________________
Stephen Hudson
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-14-2007, 04:25 AM
crizdee's Avatar
crizdee crizdee is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Brighton, UK
Posts: 10,507
Default Re: severe LATENCY on AUX problem.

Quote:
Now I understand the way buffer affects the RTAS (well, in auxs). I use RTAS on the master which puts it into the red but that's fine (right?) cause it all comes out equally late.

Well, yes and no!! best to disable the ADC for the master fader? command+control+click on the delay number to disable it.

What you have to remember when using aux/busses is this, the delay from the tracks feeding it are added to the delay caused by the plugs added to the bus!! which is added to the delay on the mix bus!! track delay add to aux delay add the mix bus delay = red delay = non delay compensated = out of time = out of phase! Houston we have a problem.

Using RTAS on Aux channels creates a lot more delay than using them on a track, as you have discovered.

Try and take an hour today to read the manual within PT you have a help menu. there you will find the reference manual with a search facility

Chris
__________________
PT MAC Troubleshooting... http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=54888

Producer, Engineer,
UKmastering Mixing & Mastering
Blinders_Columbia top 40 UK album charts
Slow Readers Club Joy Of The Return #9 UK album charts

www.ukmastering.com


PT10.3.10 Mountain Lion HD6 accel Magma PE6R4 D Command 32 MacPro 12 Core 3.46ghz UAD-2 Octo x2. Manley Vari-Mu, Manley Massive Passive, SSL VHD, ADL600, Grove Tubes ViPre, Tube-Tech CL-1B. Hafler TRM active monitoring.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-14-2007, 10:30 AM
meech meech is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 290
Default Re: severe LATENCY on AUX problem.

RTAS plugins on Aux tracks in HD always produce latency. The aux (I believe) is handled by the HD cards' dsp, and then to use RTAS the signal has to go back to the computer, before going out again to the cards. Unfortunately TDM plugins are the only ones that work without extra latency on Aux tracks.
__________________
HD Native - Apogee Symphony I/O
Mac Pro 6 core 3.33 Westmere 16 GB of RAM
PTHD 10.2
OSX 10.7.5
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is anyone having severe crash issues with PT9 DStinnAudio Windows 10 03-09-2011 08:44 PM
Severe issue harlll 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 11 03-15-2007 10:23 AM
RTAS on Aux Channels - severe latency Trailerman Pro Tools TDM Systems (Win) 2 11-03-2006 12:34 AM
Severe digital noise problem - please help DiscoD Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 3 08-01-2005 08:15 PM
Severe Latency with outboard gear Digi2004 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 3 10-01-2004 08:39 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:00 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com