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  #1  
Old 05-25-2013, 08:26 AM
PatriotsBiker PatriotsBiker is offline
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Default Windows User Accounts, Error Messages and PT/Avid Folders

I'll list my questions first, and then a bit of back ground down so that you don't have to read a novel.

#1: Is there a list somewhere that lists the various folders that Pro Tools either creates or uses? I'd like to verify that some rogue app or system process or even a user is not clamping down on a file somewhere.

#2: Is/are there settings that would make an error message not appear should something go bad?

#3: Is there something turned off during the performance optimizations that I should turn back on that would help me trouble shoot better?

This is in related to the novel I posted here and would get drowned and never seen if appended. That is also where my Sandra Report is.

Short version of error is that my computer freezes up when starting a PT session medium sized Session (27 audio, 6-8 aux). I can do the shift thing while opening to disable the plugs, but turning them back on one by one doesn't reveal an error like it normally does.

I still think it's plugs. I re-installed the ones on this project.

I also am 99% sure that it's the ones on my master fader. I'll prove that soon.

My whole computer freezes up, causing me to have to force a boot doing a power cut. Not good. As with anything that freezes, there is no error message. If an application freezes for whatever reason, it cannot perform it's normal error handling routine. The one caveat to that is that if I have something turned off that will otherwise notify me of an error, it's possible that it's in a state waiting for response. Normally, though, the machine itself would be responsive.

I really doubt that it's a memory leak, too. My machine does not sound like it's cranking endlessly. I can't pull up Task manager to verify that this is the case, though. I'll leave that at 99% sure. :)
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  #2  
Old 05-25-2013, 09:19 AM
guitardom guitardom is offline
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Default Re: Windows User Accounts, Error Messages and PT/Avid Folders

Quote:
Originally Posted by PatriotsBiker View Post
I'll list my questions first, and then a bit of back ground down so that you don't have to read a novel.

#1: Is there a list somewhere that lists the various folders that Pro Tools either creates or uses? I'd like to verify that some rogue app or system process or even a user is not clamping down on a file somewhere.

#2: Is/are there settings that would make an error message not appear should something go bad?

#3: Is there something turned off during the performance optimizations that I should turn back on that would help me trouble shoot better?

This is in related to the novel I posted here and would get drowned and never seen if appended. That is also where my Sandra Report is.

Short version of error is that my computer freezes up when starting a PT session medium sized Session (27 audio, 6-8 aux). I can do the shift thing while opening to disable the plugs, but turning them back on one by one doesn't reveal an error like it normally does.

I still think it's plugs. I re-installed the ones on this project.

I also am 99% sure that it's the ones on my master fader. I'll prove that soon.

My whole computer freezes up, causing me to have to force a boot doing a power cut. Not good. As with anything that freezes, there is no error message. If an application freezes for whatever reason, it cannot perform it's normal error handling routine. The one caveat to that is that if I have something turned off that will otherwise notify me of an error, it's possible that it's in a state waiting for response. Normally, though, the machine itself would be responsive.

I really doubt that it's a memory leak, too. My machine does not sound like it's cranking endlessly. I can't pull up Task manager to verify that this is the case, though. I'll leave that at 99% sure. :)
1. No, though it could be come up with
2. No
3. Can't say without knowing what you tweaked

Did you install as administrator?
Try running as administrator?
Could have a botched install-update. Try uninstalling and reinstalling?
Deleted prefs-databases?
Have you verified your not maxing your ram? What's your CPU at when its like this?
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  #3  
Old 05-25-2013, 03:43 PM
PatriotsBiker PatriotsBiker is offline
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Default Re: Windows User Accounts, Error Messages and PT/Avid Folders

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitardom View Post
1. No, though it could be come up with
2. No
3. Can't say without knowing what you tweaked

Did you install as administrator?
Try running as administrator?
Could have a botched install-update. Try uninstalling and reinstalling?
Deleted prefs-databases?
Have you verified your not maxing your ram? What's your CPU at when its like this?
re:3 - The standard items on the Windows Optimizations kb article that is followed up by the trouble shooting guide.

My answers for your questions:
Yes
Yes
Yes, all the way back including the Eleven Rack drivers, ASIO, HD Driver, the full install and the Pace thing where you refresh the validations or whatever it is online. I think a driver for that, too.
I did the trashing thing using your utility. (Awesome, btw --- do I have to donate each time I use it? :) )
When it freezes, I have no visibility to the ram. I can have Task Manager up, but it will no longer change once the system freezes. Right before freezing it's doing the PT start up and is not overly high. 40-60%, IIRC?

I did do a backwards test and isolation of the possible plugs and narrowed it down to the NI's Vari-comp, which is something else I uninstalled and re-installed. I actually got an error at one point, which is invaluable sometimes. I removed it and the rest of the master plugings come up fine. I put it back in and it will open and close. I set the settings to where I had it and it bombed. The Side Chain, of all things. I'll need to dig deeper. However, my wife wanted to take me guitar shopping for my birthday, so I had to go. Like I was gonna tell her "No". LOL (USA Standard Tele, btw - she rules!!!!!!) I'll have some more info on this plug and test it in other track types, etc. I'll check NI site, too. I did for updates and came up empty, but there may be some hidden intel somewhere.

The second goal and perhaps the most important goal was to make sure my system is set for PT-11. hence the Sandra report, etc.

Thanks, btw, for your utility and your responses.
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  #4  
Old 05-25-2013, 04:08 PM
guitardom guitardom is offline
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Default Re: Windows User Accounts, Error Messages and PT/Avid Folders

I love new guitar day! Got me another last week as well. Even better when someone else is buying it!!

I would probably do a complete OS reinstall. Would get a 64mb WD black for your OS drive and go from the start. I keep my system to where I restore to a clean image of just plugins and basic needed programs. No drivers or pro tools installations on it. Restore that to my OS drive before any PT updates or installs. This way its always clean.

And if your initial donation is large enough, don't worry about it ;-)
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TRASHER Pro Tools Utility(updated 3-6-18)

HD Native, Avid 16x16, Eleven Rack, Focusrite Clarett 8preX, UA Quad Apollo TB.

Intel I7 6800k
Win 10

Last edited by guitardom; 05-25-2013 at 04:28 PM.
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  #5  
Old 05-25-2013, 07:31 PM
PatriotsBiker PatriotsBiker is offline
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Default Re: Windows User Accounts, Error Messages and PT/Avid Folders

The system drive is greatly under-powered then?

I've seen some posts from folks who have re-built their machines from the ground up and had the same issue. In my case, the plug that is causing me some problems (in the least) is something that may or may not cause issue on a fresh build.

Any idea if there a list of OS Services that need to be running for PT and it's partner software companies to run properly? I'm not sure I want to take all the time and effort to just re-install all the bloat. You know, one man's essentials is another's useless bloat-ware.

Here's an impossible question to answer, I'm looking for a best guess, general impression. Based on this little bit of knowledge below and what I've been able to convey to-date, would you classify my system close to "woefully under-powered" or "doing alright"? I really don't have any visibility to what I should be able to get away with. Below are the basic high level descriptors of my current project.
In Task manager, my system's Memory usage is at 1.45GB with the basic Windows security running in addition to whatever services happen at start up. If I run a Session in PT with 25+ audio and 6-8 Aux tracks, each with plug-ins, in PT my CPU Native percentage is at about 35% without the master fader track's effects active. It's 65% with them on. (NI Passive EQ, Enhanced EQ, Vari-comp, softube's Saturation knob and Maxim). It goes up to low-mid 70's during playback and does well until I do something stupid like move the edit window. The project is 32-float and 48K, latency comp and low latency monitoring is on and my sample rate is at 512.

Thanks.
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  #6  
Old 05-25-2013, 07:34 PM
PatriotsBiker PatriotsBiker is offline
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Default Re: Windows User Accounts, Error Messages and PT/Avid Folders

One other thought. If I go the rebuild route, would the system drive be an ideal candidate for the new super-powerful SS drives, or does it need to be a conventional drive?
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  #7  
Old 05-25-2013, 11:53 PM
guitardom guitardom is offline
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Default Re: Windows User Accounts, Error Messages and PT/Avid Folders

Quote:
Originally Posted by PatriotsBiker View Post
The system drive is greatly under-powered then?

I've seen some posts from folks who have re-built their machines from the ground up and had the same issue. In my case, the plug that is causing me some problems (in the least) is something that may or may not cause issue on a fresh build.

Any idea if there a list of OS Services that need to be running for PT and it's partner software companies to run properly? I'm not sure I want to take all the time and effort to just re-install all the bloat. You know, one man's essentials is another's useless bloat-ware.

Here's an impossible question to answer, I'm looking for a best guess, general impression. Based on this little bit of knowledge below and what I've been able to convey to-date, would you classify my system close to "woefully under-powered" or "doing alright"? I really don't have any visibility to what I should be able to get away with. Below are the basic high level descriptors of my current project.
In Task manager, my system's Memory usage is at 1.45GB with the basic Windows security running in addition to whatever services happen at start up. If I run a Session in PT with 25+ audio and 6-8 Aux tracks, each with plug-ins, in PT my CPU Native percentage is at about 35% without the master fader track's effects active. It's 65% with them on. (NI Passive EQ, Enhanced EQ, Vari-comp, softube's Saturation knob and Maxim). It goes up to low-mid 70's during playback and does well until I do something stupid like move the edit window. The project is 32-float and 48K, latency comp and low latency monitoring is on and my sample rate is at 512.

Thanks.
I dont think the system drive is GREATLY underpowered, but it is and better performance could be had. SSD could work, I am not a fan personally due to the fact we dont know the life span and performance degradation over time of them. I also have 4-5 OS's installed on each of my OS drives so I need lots of space. others love them, its all personal opinion here, but if you do make sure you find a model that is being used around here.

The catch with your situation when you are working your machine, it could be a plugin issue, but it could also just be that plugin taxing your machine harder than what it can handle at a time when its teetering on the edge. If you were to open a fresh session, could you run 5 of this particular plug with no prob?? there are lots of angles to look at this. but restoring your OS, if it is a PT only setup should not be very painful. but it is the best thing you could do to test the maximum ability of your machine.

another thought that is total opinion.... but do you really need to be running at 32 bit floating?? 24 bit is more than sufficient for most things. i have the same feeling for running at 48k when your music is going to cd or mp3/online. 44.1 is fine. there are lots of debates and arguments, but this is my opinion and it could also free up resources on your computer.

there are lists floating about when it comes to services. it does vary though depending on if its online or not, other apps may need some services or not etc. its fairly simple to go through there and get out the obvious ones.

again my opinion.... upgrading my computer that is a core 2 duo would be on my short list of things to do asap. obviously money spent on guitars or something, is better spent as that guitar will still be kicking a** 10 years down the road when the computer is in the junkyard, rotting and decaying with its mercury and lead seeping into the ground and into the oceans before entering our food supply. but in this world of music recording and or composition it is a tool. the better performing and less problematic this tool is will let you spend more time on the creative tools that are MUCH more enjoyable. it will also keep this tool from being in your way and hindering that precious creative time. keeping my computer running tip top and eliminating issues before they can arise is very high on my "must do" list.

again, i am not saying your computer is not capable of doing what you need, BUT i would think of this as an either potential problem or possibly the cause of your current problems. i say this in regards to both your OS drive and or your computer itself.
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TRASHER Pro Tools Utility(updated 3-6-18)

HD Native, Avid 16x16, Eleven Rack, Focusrite Clarett 8preX, UA Quad Apollo TB.

Intel I7 6800k
Win 10
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  #8  
Old 05-26-2013, 07:13 AM
PatriotsBiker PatriotsBiker is offline
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Default Re: Windows User Accounts, Error Messages and PT/Avid Folders

Lots of good information and points again. I'll chew on this for a while. I can bring the hard drives with me, but other components are kind of like replacing all of the electrical or plumbing in a house that you're just renting. :/

I'll do some research to this end, but I have not bench-tested or A/B'd the differences between 48 & 44.1 and 32F & 24 performance-wise. From an audible standpoint, I betchya a dollar that I can't hear the difference unless someone pointed it out to me....repeatedly. LOL

Thanks again for all of this. I've got a lot to chew on for now, including where to draw the line. I really appreciate all of your time.
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  #9  
Old 05-26-2013, 10:15 AM
Greg M Greg M is offline
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Default Re: Windows User Accounts, Error Messages and PT/Avid Folders

I don't disagree with anything guitardom has posted. I will add that integrated graphics are always risky. However, the massive bump you are seeing in cpu usage when adding the mastering plugs is eye-catching (especially at a 512 buffer). I use some real cpu hogs like PSP Neon and Vintage Warmer 2 on the Master bus and don't (never did even on older computers) see that kind of resource usage. I'm thinking that one or more of the Master bus plugs are the root of your woes.

I would reiterate guitardom's comment about the need for 32 bit sessions. Might be worth seeing what happens with this same session at 24 bit.

Some additional info: SSD's - I have 2 PT rigs using SSD's as system drives (both on PT 10.3.5). One uses an OCZ Vertex 4 and the other uses a Samsung Pro. I have experienced to issues with either. I still used standard SATA drives for everything else (samples, recording, etc.)

Let us know how your session works at 24 bit if you have time.

BTW, congrats on NGD with your Tele. I recently had a NGD myself with an old guitar. Picked up a 1958 Silvertone (Danelectro) U1.

Greg
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  #10  
Old 06-27-2013, 08:56 PM
PatriotsBiker PatriotsBiker is offline
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Default Re: Windows User Accounts, Error Messages and PT/Avid Folders

Some update on this thing. I'm being incredibly stubborn I realize, but now all of a sudden, this machine is totally wigging out on me. I've got about a 2 minute window before the machine just stops functioning. Apps stop opening, stop closing, Task manager won't open, etc, etc. When this happens, one can click on an app and watch the mouse icon turn into a circle and then resume it's previous shape with nothing happening. The machine won't even complete a shut down procedure.

So far I've detected a bad memory chip, but that didn't fix the problem. I've also got some really suspicious behavior surrounding a mouse. I'm running an A/B switch to let two systems share monitors, keyboard, mouse due to some space limitations.

At any rate, most I've read on the subject indicates possible hardware failure on some end. Throw in a few blue-screens in the past month and you get the idea of my confidence level for this machine.

So, in light of all that, what's the word on the street for min specs on a GOOD machine. I want three drives - OS - VI/samples - sessions, preferably no week links making me look at this machine in three years in anger.
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