Considering switching from HD3 PCIe to HD Native

[wedge]

Originally Posted by musicman691

Personally I'd grab the 3.33 GHz hexcore and stuff it with aftermarket ram (max of 32 gig).

I can vouch that this machine is a really good fit for HD Native.

[drumster]

Originally Posted by wedge

I can vouch that this machine is a really good fit for HD Native.

That's very encouraging. Can you run a decent size mix with plugins on it and still keep the buffer low at 64 samples? This is where the Harpertown starts to have difficulty. It's not stable at all when using lower buffers. I think the Westmere machines are optimized very well for performance with HD Native.

[Barry Johns]

Originally Posted by acmost

This is a great thread...I'm just a lowly HD2 guy on a 1.1 Mac but that was the chit at the time & the word native wigs me out a bit from my 002 days. I know, I know...it is not the same native but there is a big similarity...the host. I really am fond of just being able to pull up whatever I want to & try whatever during a mix, auxes, parallell comps etc etc and it works with HD....or like you say, arm a track in a full mix & it'll work...within reason.

Okay that all said, I'm curious about Native HD for sure....Scott on GS who does some killer sessions has a 12 Core and is waving the Native HD flag pretty well(as are others)...so it's got to be the Mac Pro that is the wildcard. If you get HDX you're buying a future dinosaur & if you buck up for a 12 Core the same thing. Pick your poison. I dunno, I thought an 8 Core would be smoking but come to find out they ain't all created equal.

Anyway...thanks for posting & good luck.

Andy, why not just use RTAS plugs vice TDM. I do and it it works great. If I need to track through a plugin, I put a TDM one one it and change it to RTAS after I'm done. The only TDM plugs that remain on are on Aux, or a couple of TDM only plugins. It really is the same as HD Native, but you've got the ability to use TDM when needed on top of the computer's horsepower. Then, latency remains a non issue.

[glennaudio]

I've been reading a lot on the DUC lately. I've noticed a lot of people are happy with the 2010 6-core 3.33. Haven't seen much word on the 12-core Mac Pros (probably because they're so damn expensive) but I own one. I have to say, my machine is pretty fast when it comes to regular usage but I'm not ALL THAT impressed with HD Native. I just get the impression that 24 virtual cores somehow gets in the way and that the Hexacore machines are much more stable. I understand they're at a faster clock speed and that might be it. The 2.93 processors just aren't impressing me much. I still get the occasional crash. I keep my buffer between 64-256 and can track at any of those setting without noticeable latency. I hardly ever use a 32 buffer rate cause my system doesn't like the Waves IR-1 reverb. I found recently that that plug-in was the one plug-in bogging down my system. I have since started using the IR-1 (efficient) rather than the IR-1 (full) and it's a little better.

Anyone have any other advice for optimizations?

On a side note, I do have the OS installed on an OWC SSD and my user folder and audio sample libraries are all on a 3-drive RAID 0. And yes, there's a separate individual drive for Pro Tools recording sessions. I was expecting an amazing difference in stability and power coming from an LE Rig with a DIGI002 (on the same machine) but it wasn't really noticeable...aside from the better sounding interface.

[acmost]

Originally Posted by Barry Johns

Andy, why not just use RTAS plugs vice TDM. I do and it it works great. If I need to track through a plugin, I put a TDM one one it and change it to RTAS after I'm done. The only TDM plugs that remain on are on Aux, or a couple of TDM only plugins. It really is the same as HD Native, but you've got the ability to use TDM when needed on top of the computer's horsepower. Then, latency remains a non issue.

Hey Barry...thanks, just saw your reply. I do mainly use RTAS.
The whole no go with the new & improved 16K of ADC or the 32 Bit Native Mix Engine with TDM Cards is the issue of concern I suppose...not to mention 64 Bit when they get there with 11 or whatver.

I'm good with my rig, just taking it all in.

[drumster]

Originally Posted by glennaudio

I've been reading a lot on the DUC lately. I've noticed a lot of people are happy with the 2010 6-core 3.33. Haven't seen much word on the 12-core Mac Pros (probably because they're so damn expensive) but I own one. I have to say, my machine is pretty fast when it comes to regular usage but I'm not ALL THAT impressed with HD Native. I just get the impression that 24 virtual cores somehow gets in the way and that the Hexacore machines are much more stable. I understand they're at a faster clock speed and that might be it. The 2.93 processors just aren't impressing me much. I still get the occasional crash. I keep my buffer between 64-256 and can track at any of those setting without noticeable latency. I hardly ever use a 32 buffer rate cause my system doesn't like the Waves IR-1 reverb. I found recently that that plug-in was the one plug-in bogging down my system. I have since started using the IR-1 (efficient) rather than the IR-1 (full) and it's a little better.

Anyone have any other advice for optimizations?

On a side note, I do have the OS installed on an OWC SSD and my user folder and audio sample libraries are all on a 3-drive RAID 0. And yes, there's a separate individual drive for Pro Tools recording sessions. I was expecting an amazing difference in stability and power coming from an LE Rig with a DIGI002 (on the same machine) but it wasn't really noticeable...aside from the better sounding interface.

This is a great post! Thanks for sharing. In all my research, the 6 Core 3.33 seems to come up again and again as the optimal machine for HD Native.

Yesterday, I set up a support case with Avid about my issues running HD Native on the Harpertown Mac Pro. The troubles continued as last night I experienced several -9094 errors while tuning some passages with Auto Tune 7. I'll let you guys know what they say.

[wedge]

Originally Posted by drumster

Can you run a decent size mix with plugins on it and still keep the buffer low at 64 samples?

I know one mans "decent size mix" is another's small one, but I'd say that it's very capable. I've never had to go up from the lowest buffer setting doing normal work. Giant RTAS cpu hogs still have the same latency as on a TDM system - you're not going to be able to put Ozone, and an L3 on your master bus and not have huge latency, but that's not the systems fault.

Here's how it appears to work:

At 88.2, 64(minimum) buffer, a 64 track session reports 21 samples of system delay.
As an example, I'll use the Waves SSL channel.

Add one plugin to one channel, and the delay goes up by one sample.
Add one plugin to 64 channels, and it still only goes up by one sample.
So, 10 SSL plugins on every track raises the delay by 10 samples, even though there are 640 plugins working. (running fine, CPU at 79%)

(I don't have IR1, so I can't comment on that)

[drumster]

Originally Posted by wedge

I know one mans "decent size mix" is another's small one, but I'd say that it's very capable. I've never had to go up from the lowest buffer setting doing normal work. Giant RTAS cpu hogs still have the same latency as on a TDM system - you're not going to be able to put Ozone, and an L3 on your master bus and not have huge latency, but that's not the systems fault.

Here's how it appears to work:

At 88.2, 64(minimum) buffer, a 64 track session reports 21 samples of system delay.
As an example, I'll use the Waves SSL channel.

Add one plugin to one channel, and the delay goes up by one sample.
Add one plugin to 64 channels, and it still only goes up by one sample.
So, 10 SSL plugins on every track raises the delay by 10 samples, even though there are 640 plugins working. (running fine, CPU at 79%)

(I don't have IR1, so I can't comment on that)

Wow, that's impressive. What you've just described is something that would never be possible on my current machine. I'm blown away that you're actually able to run a buffer of 64 samples with the CPU at 79%. My system starts to crack at a sample rate 44.1 as soon as the CPU usage gets to around 25%! It's almost as if there is some sort of PCI bandwith issue with the Native card.

[drumster]

Thought I'd update everyone on my situation with HD Native. I'm still working on an open support case with Avid to resolve my issues with the Harpertown Mac Pro and HDN, but there has been no clear explanation so far. About a week and a half ago, I was so frustrated that I bought a new 6 Core 3.33 Westmere Pro (2010). It arrived a couple days ago, and I'm now waiting for the extra RAM I ordered from OWC. When that shipment arrives, I'll be installing 24 GB of RAM, OSX Lion and PT HD10. With both Mac Pros (2008 and 2010) sitting side by side, I'll be able to do a pretty good comparison of the HDN performance on each. I'll keep you guys posted!

[Drew Mazurek]

Originally Posted by drumster

Thought I'd update everyone on my situation with HD Native. I'm still working on an open support case with Avid to resolve my issues with the Harpertown Mac Pro and HDN, but there has been no clear explanation so far. About a week and a half ago, I was so frustrated that I bought a new 6 Core 3.33 Westmere Pro (2010). It arrived a couple days ago, and I'm now waiting for the extra RAM I ordered from OWC. When that shipment arrives, I'll be installing 24 GB of RAM, OSX Lion and PT HD10. With both Mac Pros (2008 and 2010) sitting side by side, I'll be able to do a pretty good comparison of the HDN performance on each. I'll keep you guys posted!

Have you tried with the stock RAM?