Problem with Issues and Issues with Problems

[guitardom]

Originally Posted by allen_gibberish

I don't need this, I have a dedicated software mixer to do monitoring and put plugs without any latency.

You asked about improvements...

Finally.. the fact that it took 6 years to do that.. is one of the things that doesn't motivate me.

6 years?? I had about 11 years in it before it went 64 bit and many had more than me. It took a VERY long time and in the process things have to change, including the plugin format.

That's a thing I'm actually scared about.. because one of the things I enjoyed about PT is that the displayed CPU usage is it and you can rely on it. Ableton and Logic if I remember well, are already like that.. and you end up mixing.. but then, at a certain point of the song, you completely run out of CPU.. and maybe you realize that after a lot of time that you cannot go back.. while having a CPU meter performance that stays constant, helps in managing the quantity of processing before bouncing.. there are some times you cannot bounce/record the track, to lower the usage without screwing the balance and re-do a big part of the mix.

Valid concern. Personally I mix w the CPU meter open at all times, so I am aware of whats going on. Plus with my current machine, it has to be awful big mix to even begin to be a concern. I couldnt picture myself getting into that pickle, but sure it could happen to others.

I assure you the things I said are not to spread negativity and are honest, and I think that would make you realize how subjectivity work, for you are improvement, for me are not something interesting and at the worse (as the CPU thing) something that could create a problem.

Do you know something that really would be an improvement for me? A version of PT without new features, maybe even cutting some, but that works, every time, in every conditions, hassle free, stable.

Many of us have that already. Not sure what what problems you are experiencing to keeps that from happening.

And that feature shouldn't even be advertised. A version like that would be like Pro Tools 12: Sorry guys, we had very big problems jumping between TDM/RTAS to AAX and before from 32bits to 64bits, and before from PPC to Intel, sorry guys to made you lose so much time and money, but this one works.

Then people will get so crazy having a PT version that actually works.. that you have no idea how much more powerful than marketing it will be!

They made it very clear that 10 is the transition into 11. Hence why they allowed a co install of 10 and 11. Not sure what else they could have done. Not sure how the jump from PPC to intel was their fault?? It was their problem obviously, but not self created. A bit unfair to assume so.

If I haven't tried it how could I assert it is a beta? What I said is that PT8 compared to 7.4, PT9 compared to PT8, PT10 compared to PT9.. have been betas.. these ones are the ones I tried (PT10 just few times but I know a lot of people who have it and went back to 9).. and then I said, reading around, I'm seeing people saying PT10 was more stable.. and that made me like but, based on my personal experience and people I know, I don't have one sane reason to expect PT11 will be better in real world performance and stability and things that do what they are supposed to do.

Your beta assertion you ask???

It is really time for companies to understand people needs things and they save money to buy stuff that meet those needs and, given the today trend of companies-[bleep][bleep][bleep][bleep][bleep][bleep][bleep][bleep]-marketing-to-create-a-profit, are quire tired of trashing money in products that create problems and don't solve needs or being forced in upgrading stuff that never exit the beta testing zone and had already been discontinued and replaced by a new one that's even more buggy

So no, you havent used 11?? You never really used 10 either?? I left 9 running and was happy to do it! You do realize you are comparing the end cycle of a build to the start of another?? Things tend to be a little off at the beginning. I suppose you didnt use 6 early on?? it was one of the biggest disasters I have ever seen. By 6.4 it was solid. 90% of all problems I see with peoples PT systems are plugin related or computer maintenance or just underpowered for what is trying to be accomplished.

I'm soo happy for you!
Last week I rented a studio to do a workshop. PT HD 10. Cost a fortune right? I spent some of the worst hours in my life having 30 people in front of me and me try teaching stuff, while the computer gave me errors all the time and people were laughing and I couldn't concentrate and I said a quantity of stupid things I don't even know, because of that, lowering my reputation.

So who's fault is this??
a. Avid
b. The Studio
for extra credit, care to elaborate why?

See things have consequences and that's usually why people gets mad.

And who are you mad at??

It was a Mac Pro 8 core bought in 2012, completely formatted and with a fresh install of PT and the few plugs I needed to use, with my iLok 2.

I don't wish to anyone to spend some hours like that.

Regardless, it obviously was not right ehh? I know tons of people and studios including mine and another I work out of with no issues. PT has never claimed to be the most simplistic plug and play software.

That, according with my dictionary, is forcing them in doing one thing they have no interest in doing and Avid is the only one in getting benefits by that. Because, as I said, they won't be phased out.. they just need to do a VST version of their plugs to get like 80% of their potential clients, so I don't see which is the interest between plug in developers.

If a dev wishes to be relevant in the world of PT, they will create an AAX plugin. There are already hundreds upon hundreds to choose from. More are being released all the time. Moving forward and progress sometimes requires change. To think that something as major as a plugin format operating real time inside of a daw would not need to be updated as well is rather odd imo.

Or maybe is something you don't know, you haven't encountered, you have misunderstood, or you don't care?

RTAS are optimized for VI? Tell me, are them time stamped? Yeah, some, the one in PT. Try using Kontakt.. or other stuff. the playback is totally delayed and jittery

I never said RTAS was optimized did I??? care to quote that for me?? We were talking about 11 were we not? 10 and below were very clunky with Vi's and why hosting in VEP pro, Reaper, and other Daws-Hosts is so popular. I also expect a lot of people to continue with this workflow.

In general, ask any guy who does electronic music using plugs and ask them about why they don't use PT.. the answer I usually get is because it is a nightmare dealing with RTAS and also that they don't find most of the plugs they use.

I know plenty of them that use PT and some major guys around here do.

Considering I was talking about me, my experience, and it was easily understandable by the fact I was referring to "my first problem will be".. I was talking about the plugs I own, not the plugs you own.

Considering you still work on 9, I am guessing you are behind and not up to date on many things. Thats all fine and well, but many of us have altered our work flows and found new plugins. Its not all bad. There are plenty to choose from. You also did not specify "your" plugins. But reading I with that in mind, i see where you are coming from.

What information? I'm talking about my personal experience and my own opinion. What are you talking about? And please, tell me, who are you to assert what I'm saying is severely misconstrued and filled with false myths? What does myths even pertain in any word I said? Where do I presented anything as a fact? Where do I have hidden I don't have 11 and were have I expressed an opinion regarding PT considering I haven't ever used it? How could I have an opinion about 11 considering I've never used it?

I apologize, its all opinions then.

And, again, please, tell me: who are you to assert in absolute the things you said up here? How could I trust your interpretation when you missed pretty much anything I wrote and draw conclusions that I feel completely out of the point I was trying to express?

I am a person that does not have all these issues and problems in Pro Tools as well as being up to date with it, so therefore I would say a person that has the ability and willing to help others that have problems.

[louieshowers]

Originally Posted by mesaone

I simultaneously respect the opinion and disagree. My post was completely impersonal and did not say that the opinions of others are invalid. I would urge you to put away the "fanboy" stuff if you're making a plea for decorum and asking others not to antagonize.

My post was in no way directed toward your post. I actually pasted that statement from another thread. I standby what I wrote though.

[louieshowers]

Originally Posted by guitardom

copying and pasting posts dont help anything....

Mesa ones post was not insulting or antagonizing in any way. There was not 1 insult or "diss" in it. It was about the kindest post on this page.



This deserves special attention. People jumping in or starting threads with attitudes, calling people "fan boys" insulting Avid and the products, making ridiculous statements and claims on things they do not understand or know about, and then tell everyone else to be respectful and not rude??? That is the definition of hypocrisy and if people dont understand, here is a link to the definition There has been a LOT of this lately and its getting quite stupid.

First off, I did not address my post to Mesa ones, so let's get that straight. As far as PT is concerned, the product is problematic and unsatisfactory, guitardom. If you feel as though I am stupid for not being happy with this product. I am not the person creating problems on thousands of people's computers internationally, the program is. I find it equally stupid that certain members here try to stifle any negative feedback. Just ask around. Many people associate protools with headaches and troubleshooting. MANY NOT ALL. So yes, I standby my post, every word of it, even the part about respecting each other. Not everyone is a computer/software engineer who desires to purchase protools. This is real feedback.

[louieshowers]

Originally Posted by allen_gibberish

He called "fan boys" people who are considered "expert" in this forum who usually assault you, ridiculing you, making fun of your opinion and dissing completely your experience (and that wasn't referred to Mesaone if I got it right). I bet, because I've known some of them, some of them are Avid Beta Testers.. and I think Louie is trying to say that till Avid doesn't understand that instead unleash their hidden supporters to assault people who has problems with their software, they should start giving some credit to them and try to actually solve these problems instead saying "they don't exist".. hoping they can hide this.. well.. things won't change.. it is just time to give credit to people, both I and Louie have expressed we LOVE Pro Tools and I bet the reason why both are there saying the things we are saying.. is because we'd love to keep using it and we are looking for reasons to upgrade it.

And also explain me, who is insulting Avid or its products? Who is making ridiculous statements and claims on things they don't understand? I very well know the word hypocrisy and I don't see one bit of it in what I expressed nor in what Louie expressed. So about who are you talking about considering there are few posted dated 2014 in this thread.


Also tell me another thing, even assuming all you said is true.. what do you care and what justify people in being rude against people who express a negative experience about the given product? Explain me.

You are 100% accurate about everything you just said. You are spot on my friend. Thank you for understanding and clearing the air while I was in session. Like I said, the product speaks for itself.

[guitardom]

Originally Posted by louieshowers

First off, I did not address my post to Mesa ones, so let's get that straight. As far as PT is concerned, the product is problematic and unsatisfactory, guitardom. If you feel as though I am stupid for not being happy with this product. I am not the person creating problems on thousands of people's computers internationally, the program is. I find it equally stupid that certain members here try to stifle any negative feedback. Just ask around. Many people associate protools with headaches and troubleshooting. MANY NOT ALL. So yes, I standby my post, every word of it, even the part about respecting each other. Not everyone is a computer/software engineer who desires to purchase protools. This is real feedback.

The temperament of the software cannot be debated. It's always had its share of quirks and bugs. The fact so many can run it problem free for the most part proves it can be ran without the issues. This leads to the question "what is the variables?"

It's not a matter I stifiling, it's a matter of what is the user doing different that is creating the problems? That can sound offensive if taken wrong, but it is the fact at hand that is separating the problem systems with the problem free. Most everybody knows before getting into PT, it's a special beast that must be treated different than other programs. You can argue against it and say it shouldn't be, which I agree, but there are 2 choices. Treat it as such and go along for the ride, or sit on the sidelines yelling at it.

[guitardom]

Originally Posted by louieshowers

My post was in no way directed toward your post. I actually pasted that statement from another thread. I standby what I wrote though.

Then who was it directed to and why?? It made no sense in the context of the direction of the thread at that time. The OP was the one being the aggressor and snarky to Jack. It is actually the only reason I drug myself into it. You should probably go back and read the first page.

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by guitardom

The temperament of the software cannot be debated. It's always had its share of quirks and bugs. The fact so many can run it problem free for the most part proves it can be ran without the issues. This leads to the question "what is the variables?"

It's not a matter I stifiling, it's a matter of what is the user doing different that is creating the problems? That can sound offensive if taken wrong, but it is the fact at hand that is separating the problem systems with the problem free. Most everybody knows before getting into PT, it's a special beast that must be treated different than other programs. You can argue against it and say it shouldn't be, which I agree, but there are 2 choices. Treat it as such and go along for the ride, or sit on the sidelines yelling at it.

I came from using other daw software (Sonar in various forms) to the PT world. I knew going in that it was a different program that, while I could carry over some skills and knowledge from Sonar there was a whole 'nother knowledge base I needed to learn if I wanted to truly use PT. Sure there are times I sit and go 'why can't I do this that or the other thing like I used to do in Sonar' but then I find the PT way and it makes sense and I deal with it. I like the learning challenge.

Does PT work flawlessly every time? No but I've gotten to the point where if I have a PT problem I generally know it's something I did versus something that may or may not be broken in PT. Does PT do everything Sonar did? No. Do I curse PT because it doesn't? No. Do I get more work done more easily in PT than in Sonar? Yes!

[louieshowers]

Originally Posted by guitardom

Then who was it directed to and why?? It made no sense in the context of the direction of the thread at that time. The OP was the one being the aggressor and snarky to Jack. It is actually the only reason I drug myself into it. You should probably go back and read the first page.

Let it go man. I appreciate your feedback. I am always going to post my two cents. (not that I necessarily owe you an explanation, but I feel that my post is/was valid here).

[louieshowers]

Originally Posted by musicman691

I came from using other daw software (Sonar in various forms) to the PT world. I knew going in that it was a different program that, while I could carry over some skills and knowledge from Sonar there was a whole 'nother knowledge base I needed to learn if I wanted to truly use PT. Sure there are times I sit and go 'why can't I do this that or the other thing like I used to do in Sonar' but then I find the PT way and it makes sense and I deal with it. I like the learning challenge.

Does PT work flawlessly every time? No but I've gotten to the point where if I have a PT problem I generally know it's something I did versus something that may or may not be broken in PT. Does PT do everything Sonar did? No. Do I curse PT because it doesn't? No. Do I get more work done more easily in PT than in Sonar? Yes!

Congratulations! I RESPECT YOUR HAPPINESS!!!

[louieshowers]

Originally Posted by guitardom

The temperament of the software cannot be debated. It's always had its share of quirks and bugs. The fact so many can run it problem free for the most part proves it can be ran without the issues. This leads to the question "what is the variables?"

It's not a matter I stifiling, it's a matter of what is the user doing different that is creating the problems? That can sound offensive if taken wrong, but it is the fact at hand that is separating the problem systems with the problem free. Most everybody knows before getting into PT, it's a special beast that must be treated different than other programs. You can argue against it and say it shouldn't be, which I agree, but there are 2 choices. Treat it as such and go along for the ride, or sit on the sidelines yelling at it.

Guitardom,

You are a logical guy. I appreciate this post. I am also a logical guy. My issue and allen_gibberish's (I assume) is the notion that when people come on here and voice frustration about a product that has essentially been in beta testing mode for upwards of ten years, there are a few users here who act like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05NWJ2p4jhQ and this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfKL6RM8hsY

I have made it a conscious effort to STIFLE this behavior on here in an attempt to counteract the other stifling. Make sense? The product speaks for itself. The fact that certain people are noticing a product that has not delivered as a whole, and are speaking out makes them stupid? I beg to differ. What is stupid is a company who refuses to adequately develop an amazing CONCEPT (AKA PROTOOLS). It is still a concept and not a reality. I would love to use a fully functioning Protools. Not one that I am hitting ctrl+s every 30 seconds because of my lack of faith in it. Not one that crashes when I use an advertised feature (elastic audio). Not one that has a GUI freeze for 6 months (during which time, certain "experts" stifled and belittled those reporting the issue). So, having said that, I understand that the easiest thing to do would be to call me a lunatic/loudmouth (in so many words) and minimize my voice (allen_gibberish's ) with snarky remarks etc... but THE PRODUCT SPEAKS FOR ITSELF. Just ASK AROUND. I did not create the international reputation that exists in said product and company.