Need help with Hardware sends

[Cal D]

I am using Protools 8.05, and I have never used outboard hardware components with protools.

My goal is to use my outboard reverb rack unit, within pro tools. Here's what i have done so far:

I have a vocal track on Track 1

I created a Send on Track 1.

I created a mono Aux track as track 2.

I then directed the vocal track( Track 1) to the Aux track(track2) . I did this but assigning my Send to Output 6. Output 6 is routed from the back of my Fast Track Ultra sound module, to the input of my rack mount reverb unit.

The Out of my rack mount reverb unit goes to Input 6 on the back of my Fast Track Ultra sound module.

In other words, the reverb rack mount is channeled through input and output 6 on the back of my sound module.

So now, when I press play, the vocal track gets pushed through the reverb unit and the processed signal comes back into the Aux track (track2)

Moving the slider on the Aux track, increases the amount of reverb I hear.

Questions:

1. Does it sound like I got this hooked up right?

2. How come is it that when I solo the Aux track, i can't hear anything come out of it?

3. How does this hookup differ from an hardware insert hookup?

Thank-you

[Ben Jenssen]

1. Nope.

2. That's because if you solo a track, it's the same as muting all the other tracks. So if you solo the aux, the vocal track is silent, and the reverb and the aux hears nothing. You can avoid this with "solo safe" (look it up in the ref guide). You can solo safe (cmnd-click the solo button) one or more tracks to let them play even if another track is soloed.

The most common way to set this up when mixing is to solo-safe reverb and fx aux'es, so that if you solo an instrument with a fx-send on it, you will still hear its fx.

3. Your routing makes little sense with sends and reverb. In fact it's exactly how you would hook up a mono hw insert. Output and input on the same, no.6, then select hw insert no.6 on the track.

I bet your reverb has two outputs, right and left, stereo. Therefore you need two cables from the unit to the Fast Track. The signal from the Fasttrack to the unit can be mono no problem, and if the unit has two inputs, stereo, left/right, it usually says Left/mono on the left input so use that.

Which output and inputs you use is up to you, just make sure the inputs on the Fasttrack is a stereo pair, like 1-2 or 5-6.

Then the routing could be f.ex Fasttrack output 3 into hw reverb input Left/mono, hw reverb output left/right into Fasttrack 5-6. The aux return in the session must be stereo, and its input set to 5-6 and output to main output 1-2, like your vocals and other tracks. (Your routing of the vocals to the aux makes no sense. It should go to the main output.)

Then you name the output 3 "HW Reverb" in I/O setup in protools, and inputs 5-6 maybe "HW Rev return", and you can create sends to the unit on as many tracks as you want.

[Cal D]

Ben:

Thank-you so much for helping me out with this. Your advice makes sense and I have made some adjustments.

Before I go too far into this, I am asking myself the following questions and would appreciate any advice you or anyone else can give:

I have two hardware units i'd like to integrate into my Protools set up.

The first is a Reverb rack mount (as I previously mentioned) - and yes, it does have stereo outs with the Left being a mono option.

The second hardware unit is a Antares Autotune hardware rack mount.

I envision using the reverb mainly to apply effects to vocals, and perhaps to other instruments from time to time.

I plan on using Autotune primarily to take advantage of its mic modeling technology. I rarely use it to correct pitch, as I tend to work with singers who don't need it, but I may also invoke the autotune component from time to time.

My question is this:

When is it better to set these units up as Sends to Aux track, to main outs,

as opposed to

Setting these units up as hardware inserts.

Given what i'll be using these for, is each better as a Send/Return effect or as an insert unit?

Thank-you.

[Ben Jenssen]

Well, I think the answer is rather obvious; do both. Provided your interface has enough free in/outs, have your reverb accessible from sends, and the autotune available as insert on single tracks.

Routing f.ex:
Fasttrack4out-autotune-Fasttrack4in
Fasttrack5out-reverbmonoin-revstereoout-Fasttrack5&6in

[Darryl Ramm]

Before you go too far you may want to ask yourself more fundamental questions.

You have exactly what? What Reverb rack unit? Unless it's something especially rare (expensive) you just can't live without you are likely much better off using it as a door stop and just using any one of many wonderful reverb plugins.

What Antares rack unit? What is your actual Microphone? Are you trying to track or 'reamp' through it? What playback buffer size are you able to run at? if live tracking through a hardware send will 2X the buffer latency be acceptable? IIRC those processors have ~few ms latency to start with.

There is no right and wring way to do any of this. How you set stuff up us up to how you want to work.

With the Antares normally I expect most people inset it on a mic/hardware insert in the interface (which yours does not have) or insert them between a separate analog preamp and interface. if you have an outboard preamp I'd try that. There are much better mic and preamp modeling toys available from several other companies. if you really want to autotune... use the plugin.

Reverb, first question there is on if you want to apply to a single track, as an effect while tracking/monitoring or to a whole bus.

You may be better off getting rid of the cheap interface and outboard gear and going with a better interface or just a nice external analog preamp. At least just get stuff working at all quickly and check on how it sounds and noise etc.

[Ben Jenssen]

All good points, Darryl.

But still, there's value in playing around with routing hardware for the first time, however low end, and maybe learning a bit about signal flow and basics.

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by Ben Jenssen

All good points, Darryl.

But still, there's value in playing around with routing hardware for the first time, however low end, and maybe learning a bit about signal flow and basics.

I don't disagree, in fact my point was to just play with it quickly as possible, but have a critical view and be willing to give it up.

[Cal D]

Hi

Thank-you

Just some points of clarification:

I do understand that there are many really good plug ins that provide wonderful reverbs, pitch correction etc., and i do use such plug ins extensively.

These rack mounts however have been sitting around, and I just wanted to put them to use while learning how to interface ProTools with hardware.

The reverb is a Roland DEP3. Autotne is the rack mount made by antares. I like a particular mic model it has, and simply wanted to have access to it. I also figured using HW sources where appropriate, releives my PC of some processing - which can be very taxing when you have a session with 10 to 20 tracks. Not saying all my stuff is like that, but I have had some sessions that are complex.

I'm not after the perfect sound. I'm just wanting to learn how to use HW with protools.

The suggestions here are all good and am taking them all to herart.

Thank-you to all.

[Cal D]

By the way, my Fast Track Ultra does provide two inserts.

Not sure how they get deployed. I assume that if I run the Autotune to one of these inserts, anything going in or out of the Fast Track, is subject to the Autotune unit?

[Darryl Ramm]

Oh right, it has two hardware inserts. They will be on mic inputs between the preamp and buffer to the converter. You will need an insert Y cable. The manual should explain how to use it. but that at least should let you monitor through the antares with only its internal latency.

And the Roland... back to my earlier point. I would not bother. And if you are running so close to the edge that the CPU consumed by instance of a reverb plugin on your DAW causes problems then you have more serious issues to worry about.


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