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  #1  
Old 10-31-2005, 07:18 AM
guitar131 guitar131 is offline
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Default Plug-In Delay Compensation

I was wondering if someone could explain some things about this for me. If it is so important, and it seems that it is since the plug-ins are actually moving the audio from its original position, then why wouldn't this be a function that would HAVE to be in the software? Isn't the lack of this feature actually making a "plug-in rich" LE session invalid in terms of the timing of the audio? I understand the marketing strategy aspect of this discussion, but it only makes sense that if you don't have it, and you have a lot of plug-ins on your tracks, then your session effectively becomes something you didn't plan it to be...with audio shifted in places that you never planned it to be! It's almost as bad as if everytime you played an audio track, the intonation moved 3 cents sharp, unless you had TDM and the "Intonation Adjustment Compensation" feature. It just doesn't make any "real world" sense to me, regardless of the business strategy.
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Old 10-31-2005, 07:26 AM
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Default Re: Plug-In Delay Compensation

Hi!

I agree. Things like this should be part of the package. PT is from a lot of viewpoints presenting functionality from a users view point, not from a technical viewpoint.

Manual PDC is one of those things that just shouldn't be part of a users work - stealing energy from more important tasks.

Cheers,
// J
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  #3  
Old 10-31-2005, 07:28 AM
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Default Re: Plug-In Delay Compensation

Though not as easy as "automatic", it is still possible to compensate for the delay using "manual delay compensation", where you actually nudge the audio tracks back in place by the same value as the delay being produced. You just have to do some more work.

Pro Tools LE/MP version 7 will now also include the Time Adjuster Plugin, which was previously a TDM only feature.
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Old 10-31-2005, 07:39 AM
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Default Re: Plug-In Delay Compensation

PTLE actually has PDC built-in up to the Playback Buffer size. Use 1024 buffer and delays up to 1024 samples will be compensated.
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Old 10-31-2005, 08:13 AM
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Default Re: Plug-In Delay Compensation

Cliffy - that's the compensation for the buffer size and converter latency, but not for plugin delays.

Most plugins don't introduce a delay. Some plugins, by the nature of their algorithms, must create a delay. (example, FIR filters).
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Old 10-31-2005, 08:26 AM
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Default Re: Plug-In Delay Compensation

Hi Guys,

May seem like a silly question, but if you record a Reason Drum line to an audio track (bus aux track Reason to the input of an audio track) with the buffer size set at 1024, how much should you nudge the recorded region back in time to compensate for the induced delay. 1024?, 2048?

I thought originally only 1024 but that seems to be too little. What was previosly an in time drum line (midi from protools to the NNXT) is now noticably out.

I have noticed the delay also when it comes to recording (via inputs on Mbox) at high buffer settings i.e.1024

In these circumstances I have just shifted the audio until it seems/sounds right, although if I have a defined nudge value it would be easier.

can any PTLE gurus help me out?

neeel.
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Old 10-31-2005, 09:13 AM
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Default Re: Plug-In Delay Compensation


Quote:
Cliffy - that's the compensation for the buffer size and converter latency, but not for plugin delays.
Tele, I always thought that to be the case too until digi claimed the following:

Quote:
Just want to make sure this is clear.. Pro Tools LE DOES compensate for host-based plug-ins using the CPU for processing by way of the HW buffer. That point seemed to be getting muddled in the disucssion of latencies introduced by 3rd-party hardware accelerators (which are not compensated for as noted above).

Thanks, carry on..
This is from the Protools 7 here it is thread.
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Old 10-31-2005, 01:22 PM
will the moor will the moor is offline
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Default Re: Plug-In Delay Compensation

Quote:
Pro Tools LE/MP version 7 will now also include the Time Adjuster Plugin, which was previously a TDM only feature.
wow, I didn't realize that! very cool indeed.

that plus the plugin delay thread and we should be set enough.



Will
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  #9  
Old 10-31-2005, 01:59 PM
will the moor will the moor is offline
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Default Re: Plug-In Delay Compensation

bagh. I thought it did negative delay too. I should have read it all first.

<...whinning deleted...>

I tiny numerical window named 'track offset' that allows for negative numbers seems like a much simpler solution. or maybe I'm missing something about syncing to other devices or something.

bagh again. I'm dreaming here instead of asking the DUC what I should be asking: how do *you deal with PDC? I just read another thread where some one makes a second playlist for the shifted audio with something obvious in the name like pdc or shifted. I'm going to do that with the actual shift amount from now on (vox -2048)

there also seems to be a few techniques to find the actual plugin delay (spikes, duplicate+phasereverse...). how do *you do it? I tend to just notice something sounds weird and start nudging the region backwards 16 samples at a time until it sounds right. that list helps.

Will
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Old 10-31-2005, 03:31 PM
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Default Re: Plug-In Delay Compensation

Quote:
I tiny numerical window named 'track offset' that allows for negative numbers seems like a much simpler solution. or maybe I'm missing something about syncing to other devices or something.
Yes. Like the "User Offset" in HD which can be displayed in the mix window.

Quote:
bagh again. I'm dreaming here instead of asking the DUC what I should be asking: how do *you deal with PDC? I just read another thread where some one makes a second playlist for the shifted audio with something obvious in the name like pdc or shifted. I'm going to do that with the actual shift amount from now on (vox -2048)
Thats probably one of the better workarounds. You also wouldnt have to give up an insert using the Time Adjuster plugin which was promised in 5.3.

A quick tip for the "playlist" nudge approach is to put your nudge value in samples,type it in and hit enter. Then select your consolidated region with the hand tool and hit the "-" key once on the numerical keypad. Superfast.

Workarounds bros, workarounds. PDC, Time adjuster plugin, User offset display implemented in PT LE just makes things more convenient thats all. But it can still be done with what we have.

But yes, it would be nice if the software and computer could handle this task. That's what computers are for.

Shane
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