Output levels and Hardware set up.

[Pred80r]

I want to thank EVERYONE who has spent their time helping me with my configuration issues, I think I am getting everything mostly dialed in. Having said that however I still have a couple remaining issues that I need to address:

1. My final ITB mixes do not have a "hot" enough level for my tastes. While I know this can be addressed in mastering it seems that the mixes are just a bit "flat" sounding compared to a lot of other stuff I have done on tape. I am getting my levels fairly consistently at the 4th and 5th yellow light on the meter of my 888's and some tracks even go into some "soft" clipping but when I bounce the track down and burn a cd the mix is quite a bit lower in level than I was expecting.

2. This is directly related to #1 I think...I have no idea how to correctly calibrate these 888's, or if it even matters when you are mixing ITB...
Since my levels are lower than expected my first impulse it to turn the meters down in calibration so that they need MORE level to get to the same signal strength, thus a "hotter" mix. But since I am mixing ITB now I don't think any of this even matters, does it? Are there settings inside the software (PT 6.4.1 on a g4 os 10.3.9) to calibrate for ITB mixing? Is there a tutorial here?

Thanx,
Jack

[Craig F]

YES, calibration matters
the how to should be here somewhere http://www.digidesign.com/index.cfm?...&categoryid=34

[Pred80r]

Ok so calibration matters when mixing ITB... it seems. Not sure why it would when everything stays "INSIDE THE BOX" and the da/ad converters as well as levels can never affect the signal path but lets proceed as if it matters.

If my levels seem LOW when I burn the song to CD should I calibrate the 888's up in level to get hotter mixes or should I calibrate them down so I have to send more level to them to get hotter mixes?

What does it mean when the Tracks in protools show clipping but the 888 does not? I should adjust the 888's to match what the online tracks show?

It is all a bit hazy to me on the way pro tools software and hardware interface and interact as well as the reflection of what I see vs what I hear. With tape machines and good monitors, vu meters and decent ears I was always fairly sure of what my playback was going to sound like.

Thanx,
Jack

[Craig F]

I should have been more detailed, the calibration of your output DACs is critical:
Each channel should be the same reference level

ADC and DAC most defiantly affect what you hear.
It's the same concept as aligning a tape machine operational level.

888 meters are not worth excrement, don't use them for anything but conformation that there is signal present. (and that's output signal)

To align the 888 (I'm going to assume you do not have a Calibration session and only 1 888 and are working at +4 dBu):
1) make a new session
2) make an Aux track, assign all 8 outputs to the track (using the Control key to mult outputs)
3) put the Signal Generator plug on a insert of the Aux track, set it for 1 kHz, Sine wave, -20 dBFS (some will argue that this should be higher but you're looking for headroom)
4) Using a good volt meter that has true RMS adjust the Output trims of the 888 so the meter reads 1.23 V
if you want to calibrate the inputs:
a) make 8 more Aux tracks, assign the inputs 1-8, make there outputs a bus that has no destination (I like to have a bus called Dead Patch for this kind of thing)
b) in preferences set the System Reference Level to -20
c) go into Calibration mode, it at the bottom of the Options drop down (I think that were it is in 6)
d) patch output 1 to input 1, 2 to 2, etc.
e) adjust the 888 input trims till the channels stop flashing and read -20

Now the question of what is your listening environment calibration level. (what is the average level you listen to in your room)
There is no standard for music but for post it is band-limited pink (pink noise that is only between 500 Hz and 2 kHz) that scales between 78 dB SPL for TV to 85 dB SPL for big Dubbing theaters per channel.
I would recommend an average of 75~80 dB SPL for a music environment

Also remember that internal metering is Peak not VU, you might want to get a set of external VU meters if that's what your use to.

[Pred80r]

Thanx for the tips, I will follow the instructions and see how it works out for me...


Jack

[crizdee]

Originally Posted by Pred80r

Thanx for the tips, I will follow the instructions and see how it works out for me...


Jack

Hi,

Sorry if i missed it somewhere, but are you bouncing your mixes to disk? or are you routing your final mix out of PT via the 888?

If you are bouncing to disk then the 888 has no influence on the final bounce level.

Is it not just you need to add some compression and limiting? although your mixes may be peaking at near -0dbfs, without some limiting the RMS will still be very low and the perceived loudness will be low.


Chris

[Pred80r]

The mixes aren't up at the point of needing limiting but if they were...what do you use, Maxim, Focusrite, the bombfactory or the UAD version of the fairchild?

They are compressed at the master output (same as a 2 buss compressor I am assuming) and each channel that needs a little of compression id hit byt the compressor that I think matches the tonality I am looking for.

Does the output sample rate affect the level or tone?

Yeah, I didn't think that mixing ITB prior to output of signal to the 888 and da converters would be affected by the calibration of the 888's...but since I am new to ITB I was open to suggestions...

Jack