evaluating near field monitors

[davidp158]

I have some questions about choosing near field monitors, and hope you folks can offer some advice on how to best evaluate monitors.

Recently I auditioned a pair of Mackie HR824 and KRK V8 monitors, side by side. I lisented to them with CDs of music similar to what I record (electric/acoustic folk, blues, country, pop/rock). While both monitors are a big leap from the Yamaha NS10 and Alesis Monitor Ones I’ve used, I am concerned at how different the mids and highs were between the Mackie and KRK. The Mackie monitors are somewhat “scooped out” in the mids, while the KRK V8 monitors, by comparison, had a very dominant midrange. I would be concerned that mixing on both speakers would result in very different mixes. When switching between speakers, there were instruments that seems to drop or boost by nearly 5 db or more. Guitars in particular were extremely different sounding between these two speakers; rather dull and distant on the Mackies, yet very airy and woody sounding on the KRK V’s. An electric piano fill on the KRK V8s was in the foreground, while on the Mackies it nearly dropped out completely. I was really stunned how different the two monitors responded to the same program material.

The Mackies are supposed to be extremely flat in response. Am I wrong to assume that a flat response would not exaggerate or attenuate any frequencies, and thus, all instruments would be “properly” heard as intended by the original mix engineer? If so, is the midrange “wrong” in the KRK V8s? I have read that some people don’t like the way guitars sound on Mackies, but I am more concerned about getting good mixes than having monitors that flatter certain instruments.

Each speaker had its good points. The Mackies have a huge sweet spot, clear bass and various compensation switches for room placement and EQ. The KRK V8s had lots of midrange details and a revealing high end (I could pick out reverb tails and harmonics much easier than on the Mackies). The salesperson confirmed that both speakers were set “flat”, and the room switches were set correctly for the Mackies. Personally, I prefer the KRK V8s, but a lot of people rave about the Mackies. As the Mackies are supposed to be flat response, it makes me second guess my preference for the KRK V8s.

I guess my question is: How do you evaluate the way a monitor “sounds” and how well you’d be able to mix on it?

Thanks in advance for any and all comments on this topic.
Dave Patterson

[lwilliam]

Personally, I've never been a fan of the Mackies. I was totally unimpressed the first time (and subsequently) I heard them. I also felt they lacked midrange detail. Some people swear by them, however...and that's OK, too.

Your ears can adjust to using just about any monitor system - granted that the system at least PROVIDES all the frequency information you need.

If you like that you can hear reverb tails and harmonics easier on the V8s, then go with them. I would think it would be less of a listening strain over longer periods - as long as it's not a harsh sound.

If you compare your mixes to similar commercial recordings for overall balance and blending when mixing, you shouldn't get yourself into any trouble with them.

I personally prefer a little brighter sounding monitor than many, simply because it seems to ease listening strain. [I use Tannoy System 8 II's with a Carver 175/175 amp]. I HAVE been considering a subwoofer - just to please/appease the clients that like to FEEL the bass vibrate their chest cavities... [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Make sure you listen to the JBL LSR28Ps. They're also a contender in that price range. I really liked them myself, but haven't a/b'ed them with the V8s.

[GT40sc]

"Once you open a can of worms, the only way to re-can them is to use a larger can"

--Harned's Law for Audio

Dave-

Welcome to the wonderful world of monitors. You have run up against the classic Catch-22 of this business. I cannot give you technology here, but only philosophy..."Ah, Grasshoppa, you must find what works for you..."

What follows is just one man's opinion...

How do I evaluate the way a monitor sounds, and how well I'd be able to mix on it?

First of all, it is nearly impossible to do a reasonable evaluation in a store. You have to spend at least a day with each monitor you are considering, in the studio where you will be using it.

If you can try out one pair of monitors per week, you should have a pretty good idea of what you like after a month or so. Whatever monitors you buy, you may end up using them for 10 years or more, and the time you spend now will make it worthwhile.

So do whatever you have to. Beg or borrow speakers from friends. Some studios will have monitors for rent, as will some music stores. We have a couple of good pro-audio dealers that will let you take home gear for a day or so as a "demo-loan." (Some will require that you leave a credit card with them; I'm happy to do so.) As a last resort, be prepared to use the 30-day return policy at GuitarK-Mart.


So then during your evaluation time, do a bunch of mixes of the SAME SONG on as many DIFFERENT MONITORS as you can get your hands on. Use one set of monitors for each mix. Don't think about it too hard, just trust what each monitor is telling you, and roll with the song.

Keep track of which monitors are used for each mix, and how they make you feel. Do they point out problems and help you resolve conflicts, or are you fighting with them, and hurting the music in the process?

When you're done,take all the mixes home and play them on the living-room stereo, mono kitchen radio, old Advents in the bedroom, on your $20 computer speakers, and in the car...

By this time it should be fairly obvious which mix is the best. So whatever monitor you used for that mix is the right one.

Just the one that works the best for you and your music...

Sorry for writing such a damn book, but I hope this helps...

SC
[email protected]
Seattle, WA

[davidp158]

Thanks for the replies. I am just curious how others have made the commitment to a particular pair of monitors, and hope I'm not going about the process wrong. While I expected some differences between the Mackies and the KRK V8s, I didn't expect them to sound sooooo different. It was such a dramatic difference that it prompted me to post my earlier questions.

GT40sc 's idea about mixing the same tune on different monitors makes a ton of sense. I have a friend who will loan me his Mackies and possibly a pair of Genlecs. I could do the 30 day return policy at my local Guitar Center, too.

Hey, GT40sc ...I'm in Bellevue. Do you work in a studio in Seattle? Play in a band? Just curious.

thanks again,
Dave Patterson
[img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

[dsteele]

Another big factor is the spatial detail, this seems to be even more dramatic with the different monitors.

I also don't think the Mackies are all that great. Be sure to compare with some really nice monitors like Dynaudios perhaps. I ended up going with Paradigm Active 40's for about the same price as the Mackies.

D.

[GT40sc]

Dave,

I live in the Greenwood area (North Seattle) and have a little ADAT/project studio at a friend's house in Ballard. (Using Tannoy System 800s, in case you're interested) Here at home I have a pair of 10-year-old JBL 4410s.

Anyway, my background is in mastering, and I have done a lot of monitor evaluations. The thing is, everyone's ears are different, just as our eyesight is not the same. You could not see through my glasses, and I might not want to listen to KRKs...

Whatever.

But if you would like some more help on your quest for the right monitor, give me a call...


Steve Carlson
(206) 784-7262

[Kev]

This is so hard.

..."Ah, Grasshoppa, you must find what works for you..."

I think I have to agree with that.

So buy what you like OR,
Buy what you clients like.

[Mount Royal]

Good advice is already above. Additional monitor considerations:

Sins of omission are far more acceptable, in the long run, than are sins of commission.

One pair of monitors, alone, won't be a gold-standard. Check your work in your car, your boombox, your TV set. This concept was mentioned above. Let's repeat it for emphasis.

The midrange is, by defintion, where most of the music is.

Having praised the midrange for it's importance, one certainly has to check their work with deep bass monitoring - at least before committing to a final product. I'd be happy to forego the chest rattle through most of the day, though.

Best wishes,

John Caldwell

[letrev]

Hi - another Seattle-based engineer here with my two cents.

I was at the pro audio shop, about to lay down some serious coin on the Mackies and the sales guy encouraged me to test the new Behringer Truth nearfields which cost about 30% less. I ended up liking the sound of these more than the Mackies and thought that I could here much more detail. I was amazed! We were playing a Red Hot Chili Peppers song and I could hear a background vocal on the Truth monitors that wasn't even noticable on the Mackies.

As with everything in deciding on gear, it all comes down to listening to the sound and ignoring what everyone is saying.

Best,

Steve

[davidp158]

In reading other posts on monitors elsewhere on the DUC, it seems a little ironic that something that should be a neutral reference point (monitors) are so subjectively "different" in the ears of different people. I think the acid test is to mix the same tune on a few different ones and see how those mixes translate in the "real world".

Thanks again for all your comments and feedback.
Dave Patterson