Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Pro Tools Software > Pro Tools 2020

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #11  
Old 01-02-2021, 09:57 AM
KerryCalvert KerryCalvert is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Rosarito Beach, Mexico
Posts: 8
Default Re: Upgrade Digi 003 rack?

Thanks for the reply.
My guitar is an American made Jackson cerca 1998, with Seymour Duncan pickups. There is a "humbucker" and two single coil pickups. Originally came with all Duncan, and after frustration with crappy tone I replaced one of the single coil Duncans with a recommended pickup, which did not change anything.

I have a Fender Deville amp. When I plug in with no pedals the tone is a good clean tone. I have to keep the volume very low because it is deafening when cranked up. So I have never evaluated the tone/buzz/hum at higher volumes.

But based on the amp sounds at low volume, I am lead away from thinking the huge hum problem I have when processing through the 003 originates in the guitar.

I have tried a number of pedals, Tube Screamer, reverbs, chorus, delays, and a pedal similar to a Tube Screamer from a small company that told me they built it for a Fusion/Blues guitarists whose tone I love. But it only produces a tone slightly warmer than the Tube Screamer, and nothing close to what that guitarist sounds like. The company suggest that I would get that tone if I used a Strat, which I tried, to no effect.

I have tried two pre-amps. A Aphex 107 and a Tascam series 8p Dyna. The Aphex is ancient, and I just bought the Tascam a few months ago.

The Tascam dramatically improved the quality of the recordings of acoustic guitar through a mic. But the electric guitar issues I experience with the 003 are equivalent when I run the connection through the Tascam to the 003.

I did try the Amplitube 5 plugins, and found them superior to Guitar Rig 5 and 6. So I just purchased the IK Multimedia Axe I/O which from the specs seems like it will provide a superior electrical interface for the electric guitar with some interesting hardware options for processing the signal, along with a bundle of the Amplitube 5 plugins.

I will update my experience with that when it arrives.

Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-02-2021, 09:59 AM
KerryCalvert KerryCalvert is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Rosarito Beach, Mexico
Posts: 8
Default Re: Upgrade Digi 003 rack?

I took your advice and tried out Amplitube 5 demo plugins. I found these superior to Guitar Rig, and decided to buy the Axe I/O interface from them with the plugin bundle.

I will let you know how that works out.

Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-02-2021, 10:11 AM
KerryCalvert KerryCalvert is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Rosarito Beach, Mexico
Posts: 8
Default Re: Upgrade Digi 003 rack?

Thanks for the response, good info.

I have found the Pre's on the 003 to be very weak. I have gone through several generations of mics over 20 years and never was happy with the recorded signal strength. I would have to jack up the gain huge in PT just to hear the guitar.

I solved that problem with a Tascam series 8p preamp, that I run into the 003 since it does not have USB or firewire interface to a PC. But it works great.

My current mics are a 2005 Shure SM57 dynamic, audio-technica AT2020 dynamic, and a Tascam TM-80 dynamic which is better than the audio-technica.

None of these mics are expensive/professional grade, but for $100, work great for recording classical and acoustics guitars that I have.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-02-2021, 10:34 AM
KerryCalvert KerryCalvert is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Rosarito Beach, Mexico
Posts: 8
Default Re: Upgrade Digi 003 rack?

Quote:
Is it true 2020 won't even see the 003?
No, it does see it, and you can configure the I/O options and map the I/O into tracks as normal.

But when you select the Setup/Hardware menu, it does not do anything. In previous versions you could do configuration of the 003 there.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-03-2021, 08:22 AM
KerryCalvert KerryCalvert is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Rosarito Beach, Mexico
Posts: 8
Default Re: Upgrade Digi 003 rack?

Thanks everyone for the replies. Very useful information.

I did take the advice to look at other guitar modeling software and demoed Amplitude 5 plugins. I found it to be superior to Guitar Rig 5 and 6.

They have a new product called Axe I/O which looks interesting and may be a solution to the humming, dropped sound, and signal quality. So I purchased it, and will report back when it comes in.

I also dusted off my Fender Deville amp to test my guitar to confirm that my problem is with the DI use. The guitar sounds great with the amp and pedals that I have.

My interest in DI recording/playback is because I live in a condo, and the Fender overpowers and annoys the neighbors. So I want to be able to practice and record in silence, but with decent tones that approximate the analog setups.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-04-2021, 02:34 PM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: The Sopranos State (NJ)
Posts: 18,169
Default Re: Upgrade Digi 003 rack?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KerryCalvert View Post
Thanks for the reply.
My guitar is an American made Jackson cerca 1998, with Seymour Duncan pickups. There is a "humbucker" and two single coil pickups. Originally came with all Duncan, and after frustration with crappy tone I replaced one of the single coil Duncans with a recommended pickup, which did not change anything.

I have a Fender Deville amp. When I plug in with no pedals the tone is a good clean tone. I have to keep the volume very low because it is deafening when cranked up. So I have never evaluated the tone/buzz/hum at higher volumes.

But based on the amp sounds at low volume, I am lead away from thinking the huge hum problem I have when processing through the 003 originates in the guitar.

I have tried a number of pedals, Tube Screamer, reverbs, chorus, delays, and a pedal similar to a Tube Screamer from a small company that told me they built it for a Fusion/Blues guitarists whose tone I love. But it only produces a tone slightly warmer than the Tube Screamer, and nothing close to what that guitarist sounds like. The company suggest that I would get that tone if I used a Strat, which I tried, to no effect.

I have tried two pre-amps. A Aphex 107 and a Tascam series 8p Dyna. The Aphex is ancient, and I just bought the Tascam a few months ago.

The Tascam dramatically improved the quality of the recordings of acoustic guitar through a mic. But the electric guitar issues I experience with the 003 are equivalent when I run the connection through the Tascam to the 003.

I did try the Amplitube 5 plugins, and found them superior to Guitar Rig 5 and 6. So I just purchased the IK Multimedia Axe I/O which from the specs seems like it will provide a superior electrical interface for the electric guitar with some interesting hardware options for processing the signal, along with a bundle of the Amplitube 5 plugins.

I will update my experience with that when it arrives.

Thanks!
What so-called 'recommended' pickup did you change one of the Seymour Duncans to?


Amplitube is possibly the worst choice you could have made as their amp emulations are ****e. Been there and regretted pretty much buying most of what's in there. Their Marshalls aren't good for anything. And the only extra amp library they have that is decent is Fender Collection 1.


And as people have said trying to cop some guitarist's tone is all in the fingers. Try playing one of Larry Carlton's 335's and you won't even sound close to him. Same for Gilmour and one of his Strats. After 50+ years of tone chasing I've given up on trying to do an exact replica of any axe slinger's tone. Or style (which is a HUGE part of their sound). Give one of your target artists your setup and you'll find they sound just like you expect them to sound - IOW 'their sound'.


Like one of Clint Eastwood's movie characters said: a man's got to know his limitations.
__________________
Jack
See profile for system details
iMac dead & retired as of 11/4/17

QAPLA!
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-04-2021, 03:43 PM
Obsidian Dragon Obsidian Dragon is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 3,923
Default Re: Upgrade Digi 003 rack?

Just out of curiosity, are you plugging the electric guitar into one of the 1/4" DI inputs on channel 1-4, or one of the the 1/4" line in for channel 5-8? When you use the Tascam 8P, is it connected to once of the XLR inputs on channel 1-4

It's been quite a few years since I used the Digi002/003 but if I recall, only the XLR inputs on channel 1-4 have mic preamps. The DI inputs on channel 1-4 are line level. The line ins on channel 5-8 are also line level but can be switched between -10 and +4.

This is how I connected my electric guitar. I plugged the guitar into a Mesa Boogie guitar preamp and out to the 003 via an XLR cable to channel 1-4 XLR inputs. At other times I plugged the guitar into a Radial Direct Box and then via XLR to the 003 Channel 1-4 XLR inputs. I always got a good strong signal this way.

Just because a plug is 1/4" does not mean it is instrument level. It may be line level which is a different signal level. The old Mackie mixers got away with this by putting in pres with a wider range that can handle line level to instrument level inputs, but that is not necessarily true with all pro audio gear. I'm suspecting that you might be plugging your guitar into a line-level input rather than a dedicated instrument level input (but I don't remember how that is on the 003. The mic pres on the 003 XLR inputs are relativly transparent and don't do much to enhance the sound. The Fender Deville, on the other hand enhances the sound significantly (that is why it is called a warm and organic tube sound).

As for the hum, it is just an inherent part of single coil pickups. There are some "noiseless" pickups available nowadays, but it sounds like you already upgraded your single coils to something else. Some folks shield the guitar cavity with copper foil tape or paint to minimize the hum. If the hum is cause by a ground loop in the electrical system, most DI's have a ground lift that helps. In a pinch, you can try an A/C adapter with a missing ground plug (note: safety is compromised).
__________________
Obsidian Dragon
Model Name: MacBook Pro
Model Identifier: MacBookPro14,3
Processor Name: Intel Core i7
Processor Speed: 3.1 GHz
Number of Processors: 1
Total Number of Cores: 4
L2 Cache (per Core): 256 KB
L3 Cache: 8 MB
Memory: 16 GB
MacOS 10.15.7 running Protools 2020.12
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-04-2021, 04:50 PM
paul_g paul_g is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: South West
Posts: 631
Default Re: Upgrade Digi 003 rack?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obsidian Dragon View Post
Just out of curiosity, are you plugging the electric guitar into one of the 1/4" DI inputs on channel 1-4, or one of the the 1/4" line in for channel 5-8? When you use the Tascam 8P, is it connected to once of the XLR inputs on channel 1-4

It's been quite a few years since I used the Digi002/003 but if I recall, only the XLR inputs on channel 1-4 have mic preamps. The DI inputs on channel 1-4 are line level. The line ins on channel 5-8 are also line level but can be switched between -10 and +4.

This is how I connected my electric guitar. I plugged the guitar into a Mesa Boogie guitar preamp and out to the 003 via an XLR cable to channel 1-4 XLR inputs. At other times I plugged the guitar into a Radial Direct Box and then via XLR to the 003 Channel 1-4 XLR inputs. I always got a good strong signal this way.

Just because a plug is 1/4" does not mean it is instrument level. It may be line level which is a different signal level. The old Mackie mixers got away with this by putting in pres with a wider range that can handle line level to instrument level inputs, but that is not necessarily true with all pro audio gear. I'm suspecting that you might be plugging your guitar into a line-level input rather than a dedicated instrument level input (but I don't remember how that is on the 003. The mic pres on the 003 XLR inputs are relativly transparent and don't do much to enhance the sound. The Fender Deville, on the other hand enhances the sound significantly (that is why it is called a warm and organic tube sound).

As for the hum, it is just an inherent part of single coil pickups. There are some "noiseless" pickups available nowadays, but it sounds like you already upgraded your single coils to something else. Some folks shield the guitar cavity with copper foil tape or paint to minimize the hum. If the hum is cause by a ground loop in the electrical system, most DI's have a ground lift that helps. In a pinch, you can try an A/C adapter with a missing ground plug (note: safety is compromised).

Correct the, 1/4 Jacks are Line In (5-6), Inputs 1-4 have both XLR and 1/4 where the 1/4 is DI plugs and are controlled by the input gain pots.

IMO, if you're looking for great guitar tone, w/out having to mic up amps, and keep your latency down while obtaining a good tone, you should look into a Pod GO, HX Stomp or full Helix. Then you can just go Line-out of the L6 (at line level) and into the inputs 5-6 at Line Level.
__________________
5K Retina 27" (2020) iMac OS 10.15.7 Catalina
3.3 GHz 6-Core intel Core i5
AMD Radeon Pro 5300 4 GB
64 GB 2667 MHz DDR 4
Internal 2TiB SSD
Pro Tools 2020.12
UA Luna 1.1.2.1866
UAD 1.13.0 build 67340
UA Apollo Twin X
Avid S1 / Fire10

PreSonus DigiMax FS 8-input ADAT
Dynaudio Monitors
PreSonus Temblor 10 Sub
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
ProTools upgrade options with Digi 003+ Rack Kajun Kelley Pro Tools 12 17 04-10-2020 07:21 PM
ProTools upgrade options with Digi 003+ Rack Kajun Kelley 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Win) 1 03-25-2020 01:11 PM
Upgrade Path from Digi 002 Rack to Digi 003+ bilco 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 2 11-26-2008 04:28 PM
Digi 002 Rack firmware upgrade interrupted Drakir 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 1 10-10-2007 12:05 PM
Upgrade to 7.3 on the Digi 002 Rack ! Reebu Yoshi Pro Tools M-Powered (Mac) 0 01-08-2007 03:19 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:29 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com