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  #1  
Old 03-31-2016, 09:50 AM
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Default S6- Vrs. S5/D Control/D Command

So what does the S6 do (besides the apparently imperative VCA Spill) that the S5, D Control and/or D Command doesn't do?

I'm trying to figure out why those of you with the earlier models, which (with the single exception of the D Command) were ergonomically perfect in design, would just drop them to "Upgrade" to the S6. What, exactly, is this huge upgrade?
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Old 03-31-2016, 10:36 AM
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Default Re: S6- Vrs. S5/D Control/D Command

Greetings,

S6 builds on and addresses many of the limitations of the ICON Series (D-Command and D-Control) surfaces as well as System 5MC. I would argue that D-Command was actually much more ergonomic than the D-Control which many found to be too large (too deep, hard to reach top knob, too wide on the main section, too hard to reach faders adjacent to the operator).

Two of the huge improvements over ICON include visual feedback (metering, gain reduction, automation, and color coded functions) and customization. With the optional Display Modules (on M40) S6 has an incredible amount of information that can be displayed on the panels including real-time waveforms - audio and MIDI clips streaming out of Pro Tools, high resolution multi-channel metering, gain reduction, clip colors, track colors, EQ, DYN & Pan function curves and even clip names that change as they hit the playhead.

Regarding customization, the user can define not only where the main center section lives in the configuration, but how many faders you want, and using knob modules - from 1 to 9 knobs per channelstrip. The cool thing about this is that you can create a desk (including custom furniture if you want) that fits your workflow, your room and ergonomics and gives you the control where you want it. Regarding ergonomics, the center section of S6 (Main and Automation module) is 1/3 the width of the D-Control which has arguably more control and still allows you to easily get to fader and channelstrip modules adjacent to the center section.

With that, my only recommendation to you would be to sit down and get a demo on an S6. I think you will find that it is a big step forward from all of the control surfaces that have come before from Avid & Euphonix.



Jeff
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  #3  
Old 03-31-2016, 08:13 PM
Brandonx1 Brandonx1 is offline
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Default Re: S6- Vrs. S5/D Control/D Command

The s6 does another thing that non of the other controllers you listed do. It focuses or attentions the fader you select in pro tools. So if I have edit selection and track selection linked in pro tools and I have attention track follows track selection on on the S6, all I have to do is select a region with the selector tool in pro tools and the s6 attentions the plug ins for that selection. This alone is a huge speed improvement over any other controller I have ever used.
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  #4  
Old 03-31-2016, 08:21 PM
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Default Re: S6- Vrs. S5/D Control/D Command

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandonx1 View Post
The s6 does another thing that non of the other controllers you listed do. It focuses or attentions the fader you select in pro tools. So if I have edit selection and track selection linked in pro tools and I have attention track follows track selection on on the S6, all I have to do is select a region with the selector tool in pro tools and the s6 attentions the plug ins for that selection. This alone is a huge speed improvement over any other controller I have ever used.
I think the Command8 did this as well.
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  #5  
Old 03-31-2016, 08:54 PM
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Default S6- Vrs. S5/D Control/D Command

Jeff that's what I understood as well, the ability to customize your desk, and how it's put together to fit your workflow and room.

All that being said, I can't afford it.... :^)

I am looking at a dock (if it has custom mapping of plugs) and if not then a used D Command
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  #6  
Old 04-01-2016, 01:46 PM
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Default Re: S6- Vrs. S5/D Control/D Command

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandonx1 View Post
The s6 does another thing that non of the other controllers you listed do. It focuses or attentions the fader you select in pro tools. So if I have edit selection and track selection linked in pro tools and I have attention track follows track selection on on the S6, all I have to do is select a region with the selector tool in pro tools and the s6 attentions the plug ins for that selection. This alone is a huge speed improvement over any other controller I have ever used.
I think on my d-control if I click on a plug in on any track in protools via the mouse the track focuses and it puts the plug in on the center section. But I don't really use the mouse much when mixing anymore so I might be mistaken. Or as I recall I had to set it up to do that.
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Old 04-07-2016, 09:48 AM
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Default Re: S6- Vrs. S5/D Control/D Command

D-Control and D-Command did have an option/pref called ApTarget whereby clicking on an Insert or Send or Output (Panner) in the Pro Tools UI would Focus that particular track on the surface. S6 takes a slightly different approach allowing you to Attention (focus) based on a simple track selection from the Pro Tools UI.



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  #8  
Old 04-07-2016, 03:18 PM
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Default Re: S6- Vrs. S5/D Control/D Command

Quote:
Originally Posted by creativecontrol View Post
Greetings,

S6 builds on and addresses many of the limitations of the ICON Series (D-Command and D-Control) surfaces as well as System 5MC. I would argue that D-Command was actually much more ergonomic than the D-Control which many found to be too large (too deep, hard to reach top knob, too wide on the main section, too hard to reach faders adjacent to the operator).

Two of the huge improvements over ICON include visual feedback (metering, gain reduction, automation, and color coded functions) and customization. With the optional Display Modules (on M40) S6 has an incredible amount of information that can be displayed on the panels including real-time waveforms - audio and MIDI clips streaming out of Pro Tools, high resolution multi-channel metering, gain reduction, clip colors, track colors, EQ, DYN & Pan function curves and even clip names that change as they hit the playhead.

Regarding customization, the user can define not only where the main center section lives in the configuration, but how many faders you want, and using knob modules - from 1 to 9 knobs per channelstrip. The cool thing about this is that you can create a desk (including custom furniture if you want) that fits your workflow, your room and ergonomics and gives you the control where you want it. Regarding ergonomics, the center section of S6 (Main and Automation module) is 1/3 the width of the D-Control which has arguably more control and still allows you to easily get to fader and channelstrip modules adjacent to the center section.

With that, my only recommendation to you would be to sit down and get a demo on an S6. I think you will find that it is a big step forward from all of the control surfaces that have come before from Avid & Euphonix.



Jeff
Agreeing with everything Jeff has said here. S6 was really born out of many customer suggestions that would make ICON better. Some of the listed items for D-Control specifically were:

1. A sea of green buttons on the ICON - monochromatic visual feedback
2. Poor ICON channel meters (LED segments) - with limited functions
3. A need to control other DAW's - like Logic and Pro Tools simutlaneously (in fact mapping them on the surface side by side.
4. Limited to 16, 32 or 48 fader buckets - wanting 24 and or being able to have 24 then add 8 on the right side of the center section.
5. A center/master section too wide
6. Feel of the faders and mushroom cap knobs
7. Better feedback from Pro Tools like Track Colors and Scrolling Waveforms
8. Programmable Macros and Soft Keys
9. Expanded EQ/DYN wherever you are - not just in the center section
10. Some sort of touch screen/heads up display technology to do cool stuff like panning and track navigation

Thanks,
Tom
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  #9  
Old 04-07-2016, 06:32 PM
Barry Johns Barry Johns is offline
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Default Re: S6- Vrs. S5/D Control/D Command

Tom while I agree with you that all of these features are truly great features, and features the average user wants to have. A studio here in Orlando, recently upgraded their pro controls to D-commands, and I get a chance to spend quite alot of time every night for almost 3 straight weeks, getting to work with the D command at their studio.

I was at that studio last night, and I brought up the whole S-6 thing, and the first thing that came to mind with everybody there, was that all these features are great, but are they compelling enough to someone to ditch the D command and spend a significant upgrade cost to the S-6? Although all of us absolutely love the way the S-6 laid out, and it is truly an impressive controller. There's no way that crew could justify the expense.

Now I get the fact we're talking about a local studio that primarily does audio and a few commercials, the expenses is not justified. Maybe for typical post facilities, these things are compelling enough to make somebody want to upgrade. I have no doubt for those facilities it "could" be.

All of us agreed, that Avid is missing a great opportunity for the Mid-Pro studio. The S3 is grossly overpriced, I've not met a single person, that did didn't think that unit was not grossly overpriced. The S3 should not be a dime more than $2000. So that leaves a huge opening, for the studio out there, for a compelling controller between the 4000 and $10,000 price range. In my humble opinion what you should've done is continue on with the D command, and keep it priced new for eight channels at 5000, 16 channels at 7500, and 24 channels for $10,000.

If you guys are not careful, the slate MTI too it's going to start kicking your guy's butt in a way you've never seen to date. Granted we're not talking about an apples to apples controller here, but I got a chance to use a Dlate MTI2 for a couple weeks, that thing is pretty damn compelling. No question I take that over an S3 any day of the week. If the S3 was priced at $2000, I'd take the S3 over it no doubt!

You guys are living in Lala land right now, and I think all of you guys are convincing yourself what you want to hear. Your customers are telling you that your decision-making process is absolutely horrid! You guys are just not listening to your customer!

We are all, including me, begging, let me scream this from the rooftops, begging you guys to be successful!
J
I'm curious if you guys are even paying attention to eBay lately. Do you guys realize it HDX cards, are selling for less than $2500 today? One sold last week, for $2100! Do you realize that your HDIO's, eight channel is going for $1300, and your 16 channel version is selling for less than $1600 on eBay, practically every day?

HD native cards, sell every day for around 800 bucks. Mint condition Omni's, are selling for $700. This is never happened in your history, never have your used product prices drop so drastically in such a short period of time in the history of the company! I should know, I made 10's of thousands of dollars in the mid 2000's flipping mix cards to TDM Cards for a huge profit. Even then I was selling HD1 Core Cards for 5k! No one keeps up with used Avid HD gear like I do! I've recently been flipping 192 I/O's for double because their used prices are on the rise! Why, because of your stupid new policies!!!!

That should tell you clearly, your customers are losing interest, did you hear me! Your customers are starting to lose interest, the value of your products are no longer commanding top dollar, that should tell you something! For goodness sake's why does it take your customer to tell you guys that you're completely going in the wrong direction? Why are you guys not listening?????
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Last edited by Barry Johns; 04-08-2016 at 10:30 PM.
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  #10  
Old 04-07-2016, 06:49 PM
Brandonx1 Brandonx1 is offline
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Default Re: S6- Vrs. S5/D Control/D Command

Quote:
Originally Posted by creativecontrol View Post
D-Control and D-Command did have an option/pref called ApTarget whereby clicking on an Insert or Send or Output (Panner) in the Pro Tools UI would Focus that particular track on the surface. S6 takes a slightly different approach allowing you to Attention (focus) based on a simple track selection from the Pro Tools UI.



Jeff
The s6 way is so much faster. Even the artist series is faster than an icon in my book for this function alone..
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Vibe Audio Post, Inc.
Re-recording Mixer
Custom Build CPU, HDX 1, Omni, 192 I/O Digital
S6 M10 24 fader
Satellite Mac Pro, HDNative, 192 I/0
Black Magic HD Extreme
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