Premier combining Boom/Lav tracks into one Mono Mix

[minister]

Hi all,

I have experienced this twice in the last week -- I am getting tinny sounding audio from Premier editors. One job we did the location audio on so I could check the source files. They were good and robust. What I have discovered is some sort of audio track format in Premier is "mixing" the 2 channels into 1 when you drag them on the timeline.

I was able to get the first editor to go back and fix the track formatting and got a new good sounding OMF.

Does any one here know Premier and know the solution?

Just one more stupid thing to learn to have to educate video editors about........

Thanks!

[tom_lowe]

Originally Posted by minister

Hi all,

I have experienced this twice in the last week -- I am getting tinny sounding audio from Premier editors. One job we did the location audio on so I could check the source files. They were good and robust. What I have discovered is some sort of audio track format in Premier is "mixing" the 2 channels into 1 when you drag them on the timeline.

I was able to get the first editor to go back and fix the track formatting and got a new good sounding OMF.

Does any one here know Premier and know the solution?

Just one more stupid thing to learn to have to educate video editors about........

Thanks!

It may be an adaptive or stereo track, on AAF export it should separate back out.

You can create mono tracks in Premiere Pro

[minister]

Originally Posted by tom_lowe

It may be an adaptive or stereo track, on AAF export it should separate back out.

You can create mono tracks in Premiere Pro

It doesn't split it on AAF Export, I received actually "mixed" clips. There is something about the Audio Input channels....

Will see if I can do some testing with an Editor in Premier

[tom_lowe]

Originally Posted by minister

It doesn't split it on AAF Export, I received actually "mixed" clips. There is something about the Audio Input channels....

Will see if I can do some testing with an Editor in Premier

It might be in the mixer the tracks are being centred. There's also a matrix which determines which tracks are routed where. Never had that happen before though, so not a Premiere problem as such, more editor error I'd say.

[philper]

Originally Posted by tom_lowe

It might be in the mixer the tracks are being centred. There's also a matrix which determines which tracks are routed where. Never had that happen before though, so not a Premiere problem as such, more editor error I'd say.

But Minister is getting mixed mono (summed) tracks in his export. I've heard the results of center-panning lav+boom tracks in the editor's ref mix on the video ref, but usually the tracks are still separated in their time line so I can mute one if I want post-export. PP summing tracks on its own is a new one on me--why would Adobe want to do this, what purpose would it serve even for editors who will do all their own audio post? Beyond stupid, if true. Find that setting and kill it dead.

[tom_lowe]

Originally Posted by philper

But Minister is getting mixed mono (summed) tracks in his export. I've heard the results of center-panning lav+boom tracks in the editor's ref mix on the video ref, but usually the tracks are still separated in their time line so I can mute one if I want post-export. PP summing tracks on its own is a new one on me--why would Adobe want to do this, what purpose would it serve even for editors who will do all their own audio post? Beyond stupid, if true. Find that setting and kill it dead.

I think the sequence preset was probably using mono audio tracks. You either need Standard or Adaptive audio tracks.

I can see the point of mono audio tracks, but it is a bit odd that it will let you put audio clips with more than 1 channel in it.

[minister]

Originally Posted by philper

But Minister is getting mixed mono (summed) tracks in his export. I've heard the results of center-panning lav+boom tracks in the editor's ref mix on the video ref, but usually the tracks are still separated in their time line so I can mute one if I want post-export. PP summing tracks on its own is a new one on me--why would Adobe want to do this, what purpose would it serve even for editors who will do all their own audio post? Beyond stupid, if true. Find that setting and kill it dead.

Correct. The clip from the OMF was already mixed.

This is from Premier Guide.

Mono track
Mono tracks can contain mono and stereo clips only. However, stereo clip left and right channels are summed to mono and attenuated 3dB to avoid clipping.

I think there is an input assignment and you can force it to take only one leg (which fixes the problem, but is stupid in the first place). It is really stupid to allow a Mono track to "mix" a stereo clip and put it onto the track. True, Video Editors need to learn their tools and some principles, but why Adobe put in this functionality in the first place is beyond me.... Editors should be working with adaptive or stereo tracks.

I will follow up with more details as I get them. I am asking here so we can all share the fix with the editors we work with who send us "pre-mixed" Boom & Lav clips.

[tom_lowe]

Originally Posted by minister

Correct. The clip from the OMF was already mixed.

This is from Premier Guide.

I think there is an input assignment and you can force it to take only one leg (which fixes the problem, but is stupid in the first place). It is really stupid to allow a Mono track to "mix" a stereo clip and put it onto the track. True, Video Editors need to learn their tools and some principles, but why Adobe put in this functionality in the first place is beyond me.... Editors should be working with adaptive or stereo tracks.

I will follow up with more details as I get them. I am asking here so we can all share the fix with the editors we work with who send us "pre-mixed" Boom & Lav clips.

If working with mono tracks there is indeed a way to split stereo (or more) polywavs in to individual multiple clips when they're placed on a timeline in the bin.

I had a quick look and it seems only DNxHD and DNxHR sequence presets have mono tracks present. Everything other preset is standard or adaptive tracks.

[philper]

So what this editor did was set up for mono tracks in PP, then put 2 channel poly prod sound clips (like boom/lav) into those tracks, and PP helpfully summed the two tracks and rendered the result as a new mono file? I don't understand why any editor would want to do this--their audio will sound bad (if a lav+boom are combined @ unity) and they won't know why. This is a land mine! It's good to know about, but by the time I am hired on projects damage like this will have been done long ago. In PP, can this summing be undone, and the clips separated? Or would that require re-digitizing? This feature might get the award for Worst New Idea In An Edit System for 2018.

[tom_lowe]

Originally Posted by philper

So what this editor did was set up for mono tracks in PP, then put 2 channel poly prod sound clips (like boom/lav) into those tracks, and PP helpfully summed the two tracks and rendered the result as a new mono file? I don't understand why any editor would want to do this--their audio will sound bad (if a lav+boom are combined @ unity) and they won't know why. This is a land mine! It's good to know about, but by the time I am hired on projects damage like this will have been done long ago. In PP, can this summing be undone, and the clips separated? Or would that require re-digitizing? This feature might get the award for Worst New Idea In An Edit System for 2018.

It wouldn't require re-digitizing but would need work to undo. In theory the timeline could be copied to a new one with the correct track type.

This also isn't a new thing. Mono audio tracks have been around for ages in Premiere Pro. It might be an issue now because people are using DNxHD/HR sequence presets.

It could also pose a problem if you delivered a 5.1 or stereo mix and it was dropped into the original timeline.