sync???

[Spanky]

I don't think "corporate videos, video games, and web video projects" could be considered "feature length films". If your doing "feature length films" buy a Mix system,
if your doing video games get a used PT24 or PT3 system for less than half the price.
Like I said earlier the 001 is for Home studios and guys and gals with there guitars.
I think it sucks too that Digi left TC out of LE, and they'll probably put it back in after they realize what a huge market the 001 could have if it did do TC. But at the moment it doesn't and the system is incredible for the money. I was willing to fork over the money for a TDM system at home so I can take my work home with me, if I can do it a "Post House" can do it. "Somethin for nothin and my Protools for free"

Spanky

[noisefloor]

Spanky, just curious, what do you do for a living? Did you pay for that protools TDM home system with money you made doing audio work, or from a "day job"?

Mike

[Spanky]

"Spanky don't play day job"
I do make a living doing "audio work", both for my own business and for the man. There is money to be made in this field, sometimes you have to be creative, but its the same as any business. You need to have the tools to do the job. To do Pro work, buy Pro gear(and have good ears). To do almost pro work get almost pro gear. "somethin for nuthin and my Protools for free"

Spanky

[noisefloor]

"To do Pro work, buy Pro gear"

Catchy slogan...except you have guys like Lucas using using AmIII's. Hey, I'm not saying they're not pros, I'll leave that to you. It's a dog eat dog business. Maybe you're an exception, maybe you're lucky. Maybe you don't have a non-compete agreement like many of us have. Whatever. But there are few in the audio business who can bring in enough business that they can get a full-blown "pro" audio system for home.

But here's a question...When you've paid your nine bucks and are sitting in the theatre...can you tell the difference between pro and "almost pro" work? Really? You would be able to tell the difference between work done on a $1000000 system and a $1000 system? You would even care?

"There is money to be made in this field, sometimes you have to be creative, but its the same as any business. You need to have the tools to do the job."

To bring this back on topic...right now, there's a product called the audio media III. Digi is promoting the fact that you can do "pro" work on it. (and you can) Lucas has done "pro" work on it. (as well as many others) But digi wants you to pay a LOT more cash for a "pro' system - they're TAKING AWAY existing features in their "upgrade". There are post facilities that are considering ignoring the upgrade and sticking with the current version of the software because they want to keep doing "pro" work.

Digi 001 could be a "pro" system. If digi wanted, they could make it a "pro" system. If 001 had all the SOFTWARE features of protools, digi, could put motu and all the others out of business. But digi wants you to pay a LOT more for a "pro" system. There's no reason you can't have a "pro" system for $1000. You CAN have it right now. There are people doing it right now. (there are people doing "pro" work with software that's cheaper and more "low end" than protools!) It just won't be from digi. ("pro=spend large $) And when these "low end" audio guys get bigger budgets, they won't switch to digi.

"somethin for nuthin and my Protools for free"

Hey, nobody's asking for anything for free. (that's why I'm looking at other hardware/software packages that cost LESS and offer MORE features) If you're doing so well in the audio biz, I guess you're entitled to have a bit of an attitude. But when the day comes that somebody with "low end" gear steals your job, don't come crying to me. There are plenty of guys who made a living for years using ams audiofiles who thought they were set for life who are now looking for work.


Mike

[ACIDCHAOS3]

Hi guys,

Your debate is definetly valid. The ultimate question....."what is professional?". I'll have to agree that the Pro Tools LE/Dig001/Toolbox XP packages were a definate dissapointment. I was going to even consider the Digi001 system until I recently needed the use of TC.
The bottom line is this......Pro Tools TDM systems are very cool....if you have the money/budget to blow on a full TDM system and you need to work with alot of other studios then by all means go for it. It's a great package. But if budget doesn't fit their's definetly plenty of packages out there to compinsate.
I recently did a session on a Pro Tools|24 system. When I imported the audio from that session to my home studio with Logic Audio, I was able to use alot more plug-ins. Now of course Mix systems are supposed to rock that ratio, but...basically my point is that you can do professional work with pretty much anything. It really depends on the project your working on as well.
If you are doing alot of work with film scoring and you need 96+ audio tracks with lot's of processing, then of course a host based system would not work, and if you were working a gig like that...chances are your budget would be enough to go for a TDM system, but on the other hand if you don't need that power on demand...then system's like MOTU or Emagic will surprisingly be great arsenals for your work.
I've used them all professionally....and I use alot of MIDI....and even though the Pro Tools software isn't the most innovative...it definetly is intuitive and easy to work with, but even with 5.0 releasing very soon, the MIDI "ain't all that". So I would probably still stick with Logic or Digital Performer if I had a TDM system. And what's funny is they are very processor efficent on a host based system.
So now we go to this new Digi001 system. The features are not that impressive. I just don't understand all the complaining. It's obvious where the Digi001 target market is. And if it's not you then don't b**ch about it.
It's like complaining about how Cubase is so unprofessional and so not like Pro Tools, well then..just don't get it!
Digi has the right to do what ever they want to their non TDM market.
when they fell ready..that host based systems can tailor to their ultra hi-end market the you will probably see them drop the whole DSP farm card stuff. But obviously their is still a huge market for the stuff, so of course thier going to keep it going. And it is a very impressive system. But I'll have to agree it's a bit on the pricey side. But they can do that. It hasn't stopped people like Spanky.
But just remember it's what you need for the project that counts..not if it's professional enough product or not.
We're in the business of entertainment. Professionalism comes from you...not the gear. God knows...I've heard my fair share of s**tty mixes on a fully blown TDM system. The people who eventually listen to your album/commercial/film score/etc. Don't care what you did it on..they just wanna hear good stuff. I've heard some kickass mixes on just Sound Manager alone. It's pretty hard to believe but it's all about skills. It always has been.

Acidchaos

[carlone]

Best post of the month BY FAR acidchaos.

[Lex]

>>Kasper, if you are working on "feature length films" then you should be able to afford a "real" Protools system.<<

I can agree with you here Spanky. But, I have two friends who have PT system. I personally would love to own one. But, I don't have that kind of money, yet. However, they may work on features, but they also work on low end stuff. I could be major resource for them in terms of music for these projects and maybe even the features later on. However, I need to find a solution first. My interest lies with the Digi 001...however, despite the fact that my friends can read my files, I think that there will be issue with having no timecode solutions. I need to be able to watch and listen, and then place music that corresponds with their edits. They don't have the time to be fixing my sh@t! Especially, on the low end projects. So, my question for everybody is...what do I do?

With timecode being an issue (or if it is even an issue for my situation) will I be able to use this as a timecode option, provided I buy ProTools 5.0 (the TDM version)?

>>The SMPTE Slave Driver (SSD) is designed for users who need high fidelity LTC (longitudinal SMPTE time code) synchronization with any free-running source of LTC including digital or analog audio or video tape transports. It's a peripheral device for Digidesign audio interfaces, providing high fidelity and direct hardware resolve capability to external LTC.<<

>>The SSD can also act as a varispeed source, SMPTE-to-MIDI time code converter, or SMPTE
>time code generator (LTC). Some digital audio systems use on-the-fly software-based sample
>rate conversion (also known as software sync) to resolve their audio playback to time code. These systems can cause audible artifacts, especially when locking to time code that is varying in speed.<<

As you can see here at the end of the second paragraph, it says this:

>>Any Digidesign audio interface can utilize the SSD (or Video Slave Driver) to deliver much higher fidelity.<<

BTW, just how much $$$$ is the Digi 001-PT TDM sytems upgrades?

>>Snipped<<

Lex

[Spanky]

All I was trying to say was, if your doing post for a feature length film, the 001 is probably not going to cut it, you really should have a TDM system. Sure Lucas is using an AM3 for a portable ADR setup, it doesn't sound as good as his 888/24, but its portable and it gets the job done. Professional? Yes.
But when they got home little johnny did a Track Transfer to another session and loaded that up on his Mix + + + + + + system for the final mix. All I'm saying is use the tools for the job you are trying to do. I'm sorry about the "almost Pro work" line". I'll hold myself in contempt for being out of order.

Spanky

[Kasper]

Hey Spanky,

I do own a "real" ProTools system !!

I do work on feature films and TV.

I have a TDM system in the studio and an AMIII system at home.

My work is no more "real" when I work at home than it is when I work in the studio.

It is quite irrelevant that YOU think I should be able to afford a "real" PT system.

I have spent thousands of dollars on my TDM system so I could easily transfer sessions from the studio to home.I also farm out editing work to people with AMIII systems. This can no longer happen. I already paid for these features that Digi has removed with this "le" Bull Sh*t.

The whole reason that I, and many other studios, went with PT in the first place was the ability to transfer sessions to any system regardless of the hardware configuration.

I can't afford to have a TDM system at home, nor do I want one.There are many other ways to spend my money. Gear has to always be maintained and updated. Not just Digi gear. With this latest move from Digi I can no longer work with many of the editors I know and trust. This is a real bone head move on Digi's part.What will happen when 96K gear hits ? Will Digi deem all current TDM systems worthy of a "downgrade" just like the AMIII users ?????

Digi has screwed a large part of the customer base. I wont be upgrading any systems until this is resolved. I wont deal with the nightmare of running two software packages or losing the ability to work with outside editors.

kasper

[Spanky]

Hey, I agree TC should be in LE. I don't think Digi has put enough thought into this one. I for see that Digi will put TC back in, in the very near future. But for now your best bet would be to stay at 4.X, like you said. If you guys keep this up Digi will mostlikely respond, and give the people what they need.

Spanky