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  #1  
Old 10-11-2010, 06:14 AM
Raoul23 Raoul23 is offline
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Question Pro tools HD or HD Native advice please

Hi peeps

Hope a few people can give some advice about 2 weeks ago i was planning on selling my 003+ le system and buying pro tools HD pci. At the mo i use all rtas plugins and dont want to upgrade them all to TDM (cost factor) and i use a PC windows xp. I was going to build my new PC with i7 and gigabyte mother board which a user on this site has been using and had no issues. The question is Pro tools Native has just been released and seems to be the answer to my pro tools dilema

AHHH but is it. I can pick up a pci HD2 rig and build a new pc for about £3000, where as pro tools native will cost me around £5000. ADC is my biggest issue. is the ADC in pro tools native just as good as HD and would HD2 out perform PTN using rtas plugins.

also pro tools native only works on windows 7 and quite a few of my plugins are not supported on windows 7 which makes me think PT HD is more viable for me. When i ring shops up and discuss it with them i alway think they want to make money so they tell me what they want me to buy from them. therefore im here for some unbiased info

Thanks
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  #2  
Old 10-11-2010, 09:01 PM
docric docric is offline
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Default Re: Pro tools HD or HD Native advice please

Quote:
I can pick up a pci HD2 rig and build a new pc for about £3000, where as pro tools native will cost me around £5000.
Hey Raoul,
I think your answer is right there... The HD2 system will get you all you need, and it won't devalue as soon as you "drive it off the lot"...
That kind of $$ for HDN is just insane.

Just my 2c... but it IS my 2c...
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  #3  
Old 10-12-2010, 04:31 AM
Raoul23 Raoul23 is offline
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Default Re: Pro tools HD or HD Native advice please

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Originally Posted by docric View Post
Hey Raoul,
I think your answer is right there... The HD2 system will get you all you need, and it won't devalue as soon as you "drive it off the lot"...
That kind of $$ for HDN is just insane.

Just my 2c... but it IS my 2c...
Thanks Docric, does ADC work when you use RTAS plugs in HD just the same as it would with TDM
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  #4  
Old 10-12-2010, 04:43 AM
suicune suicune is offline
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Default Re: Pro tools HD or HD Native advice please

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Thanks Docric, does ADC work when you use RTAS plugs in HD just the same as it would with TDM
Yes it does, in fact since the majority of TDM plugs have little or no delay it's much more useful for RTAS. Just make sure not to mix and match them a lot or you'll find yourself going over the 4096 ADC limit very quickly. RTAS then TDM is ok, TDM then RTAS is bad, it causes masses of delay.
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  #5  
Old 10-12-2010, 06:28 AM
BIG D BIG D is offline
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Default Re: Pro tools HD or HD Native advice please

My 2c worth.

The system in HD NATIVE will have to run EVERYTHING via the CPU. That is Plugins and Mixer and busses and outputs etc. Where as the HD2 means that only the RTAS plugins etc will run on the CPU and the MIXER, Busses etc plus any TDM plugins you get with the system such as DIGIRACK etc only use the DSP on the HD2 cards, so in effect the HD2 will give you more RTAS power available. The only real limiting factor is RAM, but there are ways around that one as well.

For the dollars I'd be going HS2 plusinterface..-192 if you can afford it.

Best regards,

Big D
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  #6  
Old 10-12-2010, 06:32 AM
Dism Dism is offline
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Default Re: Pro tools HD or HD Native advice please

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Originally Posted by docric View Post
Hey Raoul,
I think your answer is right there... The HD2 system will get you all you need, and it won't devalue as soon as you "drive it off the lot"...
... until the new TDM cards come out...
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  #7  
Old 10-13-2010, 02:38 PM
Ghengis Ghengis is offline
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Default Re: Pro tools HD or HD Native advice please

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Originally Posted by BIG D View Post
My 2c worth.

The system in HD NATIVE will have to run EVERYTHING via the CPU. That is Plugins and Mixer and busses and outputs etc. Where as the HD2 means that only the RTAS plugins etc will run on the CPU and the MIXER, Busses etc plus any TDM plugins you get with the system such as DIGIRACK etc only use the DSP on the HD2 cards, so in effect the HD2 will give you more RTAS power available. The only real limiting factor is RAM, but there are ways around that one as well.
Hi Big D,

This is all true, however, where HD Native will shine is that you can effectively use more voices than a HD system. On a HD2 if you put a couple of RTAS plugins on Auxiliary channels, you will eat voices really quickly (extra 2 voices per stereo Aux). If you are working at 88/96k you will then have to allocate 4-5 DSP chips for enough voices for the engine (64 voices). Add delay compensation here, and you start to actually hit the TDM limit of a HD2.

On HD Native, this won't be the case as putting RTAS on Aux doesn't eat the voices up, hence you can actually run more voices on a HD Native system if using RTAS plugins on Auxiliaries. The max voice count on a HD Native is truly the limits of Protools, not reduced becuase of the insertion of RTAS plugs on Aux channels. So you truly get 96 voices @ 96khz. This is great if you are doing mixing only I reckon.

cya
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  #8  
Old 10-13-2010, 04:33 PM
Brandonx1 Brandonx1 is offline
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Default Re: Pro tools HD or HD Native advice please

HD native will be way more powerful then an HD2 accel. Hands down. On an HD 2 accel, if you want 192 voices, that's 6 DSP chips. Add delay compensation, thats probably about the same or a little less if you use short delay comp. There are 18 chips on an HD 2. So, we have used 10, let's say, just to get full track count and delay comp going. We haven't even built the mixer yet. So depending on the mixer needed, let's say it's a simple mix, 2 chips for that but the mixer will probably take up more chips in a 192 voice session. So, we are at 12 chips or so leaving 6 DSP chips at the most for plug ins. That really isn't too many plug ins but if you are just thinking EQ3 you can probably put one on every channel and have a littel DSP left for a limiter or something. Not a lot of power.

HD native, full voice count, full mixer, full long delay comp, right of the bat and I dought you are braking 5% CPU. I think I can run 490 Dverbs with my computer. That's like a HD 13 or so. All available to use without using voices. I think we have a clear winner.
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  #9  
Old 10-14-2010, 10:18 AM
docric docric is offline
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Default Re: Pro tools HD or HD Native advice please

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Originally Posted by Dism View Post
... until the new TDM cards come out...
He's buying a PCI TDM system, that means "used"...
regardless of "new tdm" cards, the relative value of the pci cards is still going to stay pretty close to the $800-1K current. Maybe it drops $300?? That's still a lot less of a difference then the price diff of buying a $5000 HDN (or a $3000 new HD"mega-mocha-grande'-accel3+" card).... vs a PCI HD2
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  #10  
Old 10-14-2010, 09:20 PM
Tom Hartman Tom Hartman is offline
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Default Re: Pro tools HD or HD Native advice please

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandonx1 View Post
HD native will be way more powerful then an HD2 accel. Hands down. On an HD 2 accel, if you want 192 voices, that's 6 DSP chips. Add delay compensation, thats probably about the same or a little less if you use short delay comp. There are 18 chips on an HD 2. So, we have used 10, let's say, just to get full track count and delay comp going. We haven't even built the mixer yet. So depending on the mixer needed, let's say it's a simple mix, 2 chips for that but the mixer will probably take up more chips in a 192 voice session. So, we are at 12 chips or so leaving 6 DSP chips at the most for plug ins. That really isn't too many plug ins but if you are just thinking EQ3 you can probably put one on every channel and have a littel DSP left for a limiter or something. Not a lot of power.

HD native, full voice count, full mixer, full long delay comp, right of the bat and I dought you are braking 5% CPU. I think I can run 490 Dverbs with my computer. That's like a HD 13 or so. All available to use without using voices. I think we have a clear winner.
You can't have as many voices as you want in Native, you can have 192. Period....and that sounds like a bunch until you start considering how many of your tracks will be stereo. Also, who in heaven's name would want or need to run 490 Dverbs?

I had an HD2 system a few years back, and it was great. I did a lot of pop and rock stuff with it and I can't ever remember hitting a wall, although an HD3 is probably really where it's at.

HD is power on demand, and I still love it. Love those INPUT buttons too, the new interfaces are killer, and HEAT...wow!

TH
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