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  #1  
Old 01-28-2009, 11:34 AM
Greg Malcangi Greg Malcangi is offline
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Question Satellite and Video LE Link. Will this work?

OK, let me get this straight in my poor old head. I can't seem to find the exact information I'm after. If I suggest a work flow, perhaps someone would be kind enough to let me know if I'm getting any of the details wrong?

Lets say I build the following Post facility:

An SFX Suite, Foley Suite, ADR Suite and a Dubbing Theatre each with: A PTHD system with Satellite link, Sync HD, PTLE micro system with Video Satellite LE and DeckLink HD Extreme. Each with a control surface but the Dubbing Theatre has a D-Control and a couple of 192 Digital interfaces. All HD systems and Decklink cards being fed video ref from the same facility black burst generator.

In each suite the PTHD systems are working independently, all of them in Administrator mode, controlling their respective PTLE systems providing sync'ed video playback. Each suite would have a dual output; analogue 5.1 output to the suite's monitors and AES/EBU 5.1 output routed to the 192 Digital interfaces in the Dubbing Theatre. When it comes time for final dubbing, each suite will switch their PTHD systems to Satellite mode with the Dubbing Theatre in Administrator mode, controlling the satellite PTHD systems in all the suites and it's own PTLE Video Satellite LE system. The D-Control (in the dubbing theatre) can be switched to control each of the PTHD satellite systems as required, assigning sends/effects, writing/editing automation, etc. Switching the D-Control back to the Dubbing Theatre PTHD system to balance the stems, setting global reverb and ultimately acting as a layback machine.

My questions are as follows:

1. Will this linked/independant setup actually work?

2. Will the D-Control be fully functional when operating a satellite system or will the SFX editor (for example) have to keep running through to the SFX suite, jump into Administrator mode (so he/she can see the video) to write automation or change the settings of a plugin and then switch back to Satellite mode and run back through to the dubbing theatre?

3. Can anyone see any potential workflow problems with a facility setup this way?

4. I can already see a bit of a problem with the global reverb. Lets say I have a TC6000 Reverb in the dubbing theatre. Am I correct in thinking that I could only send the stems to the reverb from the dubbing theatre PTHD system, not individual channels (with individual send levels) from any of the satellite systems? I suppose I could setup a patchbay, patch each suite into the TC6000 as required and record the reverb return into the dubbing theatre system. It would work but final dubbing workflow would be pants! For a better workflow each suite would have to have it's own TC6000 but that would put a serious dent in anyone's budget! Can anyone think of an elegant but more cost effective solution? If not, does anyone know of a retailer with a "buy 1 get 3 free" deal on TC6000s?

Thanks for taking the time to read this thread and for any comments or suggestions.

Cheers, Greg
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  #2  
Old 01-28-2009, 11:51 AM
Bob Brown Bob Brown is offline
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Default Re: Satellite and Video LE Link. Will this work?

Greg,

I think I understand the configuration you are describing. Just to be sure let me describe it in a slightly different way...

Each of your suites has 1 Pro Tools HD system with a SYNC and 1 Pro Tools LE system with a MBox Micro and a DeckLink card for video playback. Each suite is running with the Pro Tools HD system linked to the Pro Tools LE system. There is one operator driving the 2 Pro Tools systems together to do their work.

You have a dub/mix stage with 1 Pro Tools HD system with a SYNC and 1 Pro Tools LE system with a MBox Micro and a DeckLinkcard for video playback (this is just the same as the suites).

You have various control surfaces hooked up to each Pro Tools HD system.


If all of that is correct...

I like to think of a "system" as being an independent Pro Tools or Media Composer computer. I like to think of a "configuration" as a group of Pro Tools and/or Media Composer "systems".

Pro Tools Satellite Link supports connecting up to 5 Pro Tools systems together into a single configuration. This could be 5 Pro Tools HD systems. This could be 4 Pro Tools HD systems and 1 Pro Tools LE system. There is a limit of only having 1 Pro Tools LE system or 1 Media Composer Video Satellite system connected at a time.


Now looking back at the systems and configurations you described...

You should be able to connect each of your Pro Tools HD systems in each suite to the dubber system and connect 1 of your Pro Tools LE systems together with no problems.

Each control surface controls the Pro Tools system that it is connected to. If the Pro Tools system is currently linked to another system both systems playback.

If you are running a Digidesign ICON D|Control, you can operate in what we call "multi-mode". This allows the D|Control to connect to 4 Pro Tools systems and quickly switch between the various Pro Tools systems. This is a very cool feature and it works really well in conjunction with Satellite Link.

Please let me know if all of this makes sense or if you have any other questions.
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  #3  
Old 01-28-2009, 12:12 PM
Greg Malcangi Greg Malcangi is offline
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Default Re: Satellite and Video LE Link. Will this work?

Thanks Bob for your quick reply. Your interpretation of my not entirely clear assumptions was not quite right.

Each of the suites operate completely independently, each suite running it's own video satellite system, allowing the SFX Editor, ADR Editor and Foley Editor to be working simulteneously on the same or on different parts of the film. Come final dubbing, each editor switches their PTHD system to satellite mode (disconnecting from their respective video satellites) and being controlled from the dubbing theatre system (with it's own video satellite) and the dubbing theatre's D-Control. Each of the editors then relocates to the dubbing theatre to assist the dubbing engineer.

With this in mind, do you have any answers for any of my questions? Also, can you point me to a document explaining exactly how and what the D-Control would be able control on the satellite systems?

So, what I would like to create is 3 completely independant post suites plus a dubbing theatre which when time comes to do the final dubbing becomes one huge system with 800ish simultenous audio channels. This set up could have a great workflow and handle all the audio post requirements of even a pretty large budget feature film but at a much lower price than the more traditional feature film audio post facility.

Thanks, Greg

Last edited by Greg Malcangi; 01-28-2009 at 12:22 PM. Reason: Better explanation
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  #4  
Old 01-28-2009, 12:36 PM
Bob Brown Bob Brown is offline
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Default Re: Satellite and Video LE Link. Will this work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Malcangi View Post
My questions are as follows:

1. Will this linked/independant setup actually work?

2. Will the D-Control be fully functional when operating a satellite system or will the SFX editor (for example) have to keep running through to the SFX suite, jump into Administrator mode (so he/she can see the video) to write automation or change the settings of a plugin and then switch back to Satellite mode and run back through to the dubbing theatre?

3. Can anyone see any potential workflow problems with a facility setup this way?

4. I can already see a bit of a problem with the global reverb. Lets say I have a TC6000 Reverb in the dubbing theatre. Am I correct in thinking that I could only send the stems to the reverb from the dubbing theatre PTHD system, not individual channels (with individual send levels) from any of the satellite systems? I suppose I could setup a patchbay, patch each suite into the TC6000 as required and record the reverb return into the dubbing theatre system. It would work but final dubbing workflow would be pants! For a better workflow each suite would have to have it's own TC6000 but that would put a serious dent in anyone's budget! Can anyone think of an elegant but more cost effective solution? If not, does anyone know of a retailer with a "buy 1 get 3 free" deal on TC6000s?
Question 1:

Yes, each of your systems should nicely work independently. You can start and stop playback from any of these systems.

Question 2:

Your D|Control will be fully functional with the system it is connected to.

You can configure a D|Control to operate in "multi-mode" which allows the D|Control to switch Pro Tools system with a push of a button. This switching is very fast. It is akin to banking faders. Multi-mode supports controlling up to 4 Pro Tools systems at one time.

You can find more information about multi-mode in the D-Control Addendum v7.4-7.4cs1 (PDF). http://www.digidesign.com/index.cfm?...0&itemid=22961

Question 3:

Once you get around all of your i/o routing, I expect this system to work just fine.
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  #5  
Old 01-28-2009, 01:00 PM
Greg Malcangi Greg Malcangi is offline
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Default Re: Satellite and Video LE Link. Will this work?

Hi, and more thanks for your quick responses Bob.

If I understand the PDF correctly, let's say I have 3 faderpacks on the D|Control. I could switch the whole D|Control (64 faders) to any of the satellite systems, with full functionality. Also, if I configured each satellite system to just respond to a single faderpack during dubbing, each editor could sit in the dubbing theatre and control their suite's PTHD system with his/her own faderpack and they could all make changes to their PTHD systems simulteneously. Is that correct or would you have to declare the whole D|Control to each suite? If both of these modes are possible, would it also be possible to set the system up so that the D|Control could switch between the two different methods/modes? In other words, during dubbing, could I have all 64 faders controlling a satellite (or the dubbing theatre) system and then switch back to the D|Control's faderpacks each controlling a different satellite? My guess is that this wouldn't be possible as it would require two different settings in each of the suites PTHD systems?

I notice you've steered well away from question 4. :) I take it that in your opinion the only way to make the system work smoothly and flexibly would be to have a separate TC6000 in each suite?

Thanks, Greg
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Old 01-28-2009, 01:50 PM
Bob Brown Bob Brown is offline
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Default Re: Satellite and Video LE Link. Will this work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Malcangi View Post
Hi, and more thanks for your quick responses Bob.

If I understand the PDF correctly, let's say I have 3 faderpacks on the D|Control. I could switch the whole D|Control (64 faders) to any of the satellite systems, with full functionality. Also, if I configured each satellite system to just respond to a single faderpack during dubbing, each editor could sit in the dubbing theatre and control their suite's PTHD system with his/her own faderpack and they could all make changes to their PTHD systems simulteneously. Is that correct or would you have to declare the whole D|Control to each suite? If both of these modes are possible, would it also be possible to set the system up so that the D|Control could switch between the two different methods/modes? In other words, during dubbing, could I have all 64 faders controlling a satellite (or the dubbing theatre) system and then switch back to the D|Control's faderpacks each controlling a different satellite? My guess is that this wouldn't be possible as it would require two different settings in each of the suites PTHD systems?

I notice you've steered well away from question 4. :) I take it that in your opinion the only way to make the system work smoothly and flexibly would be to have a separate TC6000 in each suite?

Thanks, Greg
Greg,

After speaking to one of my fellow engineers, we have not tested multi-mode where you "split" the D|Control and only have a portion of a D|Control operate in multi-mode. I cannot speak to what will happen if you try this. It might work or it might not.

With respect to using separate TC6000, I'm sure there are multiple ways of configuring this. I'm not familiar with this device or if there are plug-in versions of it.

Thanks,
bob
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  #7  
Old 01-28-2009, 02:10 PM
Greg Malcangi Greg Malcangi is offline
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Default Re: Satellite and Video LE Link. Will this work?

Thanks Bob. Even if the D|Control doesnt "split" it is still an incredibly powerful system for the price, compared to traditional film audio post setups.

Sorry, I can see why my fourth question was confusing, I didn't know there was a TC6000 plugin! I was refering to the TC System 6000 Reverb hardware unit. Its a top of the range, dual surround reverb with up to 16 inputs. Bare in mind that fully loaded, we are talking of well over US$12,000 per unit. So getting one for each suite and one for the dubbing theatre is more than a little difficult to justify! I suppose I could add another 192 Digital to each system and another 3 192s to the dubbing theatre. This would allow for 2 x 5.1 sends from each system (suite) which could then be mixed to two 5.1 "send stems" in the dubbing theatre system and output to the TC6000. It would work well and be cheaper than buying 4 TC6000s but it would still require the purchase of 6 additional 192 Digital interfaces.

Any other ideas on how I might get this to work without the need for another sub-prime mortage? :)

Cheers, Greg
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  #8  
Old 01-29-2009, 02:43 AM
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MIKEROPHONICS MIKEROPHONICS is offline
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Default Re: Satellite and Video LE Link. Will this work?

HI Greg

I am sure there are now plug ins for all the 6000 stuff, except their noise reducing stuff (back drop is it?). Personally I prefer a cedar anyway myself which is run as a hardware controlled by a plugin. Stay virtual - much more flexible and responsive to picture changes as the automation is easier to control.
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  #9  
Old 01-29-2009, 08:00 AM
Greg Malcangi Greg Malcangi is offline
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Default Re: Satellite and Video LE Link. Will this work?

Hi Mike,

Thanks for your response. As far as I've been able to discover, the TC6000 reverb plugin is stereo only. The System 6000 Reverb, again from what I can tell, is capable of running two different, very high quality 5.1 reverbs simulteneously. I know plugs are so much more flexible but there are times when I'm willing to sacrifice a little flexibility in exchange for higher quality audio. No doubt there will be times when I revert to Re-Vibe, for it's easy automation but I'd still feel a lot happier knowing that I've recourse to a really high quality unit.

Cheers, Greg
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