MIDI Help

[pscott57]

Anyone have any good resources for understanding/using MIDI with Pro Tools (Artist v. 24.3.0.113)?
Avid's tutorials seem extremely limited, and navigating their website, including this "Avid Pro Audio Community" is really a mess.
Documentation for my four MIDI devices are also extremely convoluted.
Books, videos, beginner to advanced - all are appreciated.
Thanks!
Paul

[tope d]

Originally Posted by pscott57

Anyone have any good resources for understanding/using MIDI with Pro Tools (Artist v. 24.3.0.113)?
Avid's tutorials seem extremely limited, and navigating their website, including this "Avid Pro Audio Community" is really a mess.
Documentation for my four MIDI devices are also extremely convoluted.
Books, videos, beginner to advanced - all are appreciated.
Thanks!
Paul

Here's a good video to start https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkNgxiIxPWI

May I know what Midi devices you're trying to use? have you downloaded their drivers if there's any?

Thanks

[pscott57]

Thanks for the reply!
I've seen that tutorial and it was a good help, thank you very much.

Here's what I've got:
iMac with OS Monterey v12.7.4
Roland FA-08 keyboard (driver is current)
Roland SPD-20 drum module (no driver to be found)
Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 interface 3rd Gen. (current)

I also have an M-Audio Midisport 4x4 (Ann. Edition) USB MIDI Interface. The driver is unavailable (along with another M-Audio device I'm not using any longer).
However, when I connect the FA and the SPD to it, both the Midisport and Pro Tools see all devices.
I can record and playback both the FA-08 or the SPD-20 as both audio and MIDI, but I can't seem to go deeper than that.
Would be nice to start/stop/record, especially from the SPD. It's part of a large percussion setup and quite far from my computer. The manual says this can be done, but I can't seem to figure that out. The Manual for the FA-08 says it is evidently able to do this, too.
But none of the manuals seem to mesh with each other.

[Darryl Ramm]

You are hoping for transport controls on these boxes... that's totally different that recording/playing back MIDI. And AFAIK none of the devices you have support MIDI transport controls.

The manual says this can be done, but I can't seem to figure that out. The Manual for the FA-08 says it is evidently able to do this, too.

What exact pages on what exact manuals are you looking that says transport controls are supported? Link to the PDF here and give the page numbers.

At a minimum you likely want something that is able to send basic HUI transport commands. If a device supports that it should be clearly documented. Otherwise "wait for MIDI" in Pro Tools might help you. Or look for separate HUI or EUCON control surfaces and/or foot pedals.

[pscott57]

Transport is only one aspect of the whole shebang. What I'd like is a detailed physical guide to MIDI. Actually, a PDF would work.

FA-08 PDF Ref. Guide, pages 87 to 92 talk about using it to control a DAW as well as basic connections.
Link to various Roland FA series synths: https://www.roland.com/global/suppor...wners_manuals/

The SPD-20 is a paper manual. Can't find a PDF for it. Chapter 4, pages 57 through 78, is about using MIDI with the unit.
The Scarlett has almost no info on using MIDI, but it has a MIDI in and out.

The Midisport is no longer supported by anyone, including M-Audio, I can't find any sort of manual and I'm thinking that may be part of my issues.

Appreciate your help, Darryl. You've done so in the past.

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by pscott57

Transport is only one aspect of the whole shebang. What I'd like is a detailed physical guide to MIDI. Actually, a PDF would work.

Transport is only one aspect... but you need to bite that off and deal with it. And transport is very different than MIDI notes etc. And who knows what esle you are tying to do. You need to break stuff down and understand/solve whatever is going on.

I am not sure the physical layer of MIDI is the issue here, at least for transport related stuff. You likely need more of an understanding of HUI and MCU. You should be able to find all that in books, standards and other documents online. Nobody is going to just give you something that describes all you need to know. But now at least you know you might want to look up more stuff on HUI and MCU and EUCON.

FA-08 PDF Ref. Guide, pages 87 to 92 talk about using it to control a DAW as well as basic connections.
Link to various Roland FA series synths: https://www.roland.com/global/suppor...wners_manuals/

OK I see that now on pp87. The FA-08 supports MCU not HUI. And Pro Tools only supports HUI or EUCON (which does not use MIDI at all). Thanks to past Avid pissing matches with Mackie and eventual swing to go all in with EUCON/acquire Euphonix.

I have no idea what you can set in USER mode... the doc does not seem to make clear. But if you can configure it to do enough HUI then maybe you have a chance of getting it to work with Pro Tools. And you need to set up Pro Tools>Setup>Peripherals>MIDI Controllers to HUI and likely troubleshoot stuff.

The real issue here is maybe not that you need more documentation, more that you purchased a bunch of different things expecting them to work together where that's not a good assumption. Starting with "MIDI" is just far from telling you enough here, you need to be worrying about if they support HUI or MCU running on top of MIDI.

You can spend time reading up on those, but it's maybe more you should be asking about if things will work together, asking here or asking a good sales rep about when you buy some of these things.

Maybe all you need is an iPad or similar running Avid Control (EUCON) or get a Presonus Faderport (supports HUI, and has a footswitch port).

The SPD-20 is a paper manual. Can't find a PDF for it. Chapter 4, pages 57 through 78, is about using MIDI with the unit.
The Scarlett has almost no info on using MIDI, but it has a MIDI in and out.

The Midisport is no longer supported by anyone, including M-Audio, I can't find any sort of manual and I'm thinking that may be part of my issues.

Old M-Audio gear I'd just throw out, I would not buy anything from M-Audio. If you need a standalone MIDI DIN ports there are lots of companies that make boxes or USB cable adapters. Like iConnectivity MIO products.

There are some SPD-20/30 manuals on Roland's website under "Octapad SPD-20 Pro", "Octapad SPD-20 SPX" etc. they don't mention HUI or MCU or transport controls at all and I can't see what is in your paper manual.

The Scarlett is not doing anything with MIDI besides providing MIDI In/Out DIN Ports. As long as you follow directions with drivers if there are any stuff, then should just work. There really is no documentation Focusrite should or could provide. Focusrite Control for example does not support MIDI/HUI/MCU control surfaces but there is third party software that can do that.

And in terms of working out if MIDI is working/what its doing you should have something like Snoize MIDI Monitor or Pocket MIDI installed on your computer and able to sniff the MIDI traffic, able to detect/decode HUI or MCU messages etc.

[pscott57]

You've confirmed my thoughts, especially after many hours trying to get things to work, trying to decipher manuals, etc.
Both Roland units are old in the eyes of state of the art equipment, as well as the Midisport. Even the Scarlett was purchased maybe five years ago. And my iMac is from 2015 ...
I'm also "old" (66) and trying to get these things to work together on a budget of approximately $0.00. Except for the Midisport, they all are fine units on their own, so if I ever got them to work with MIDI, I'd have a really versatile system.
In fact, you helped me along with others to get my "equally old" Digi 003 to work, but the power supply bit the dust. Having it running spoiled me , as it gave me eight extra inputs, a mixer, transport, foot switch, etc.
I will take a break from worrying about MIDI for the time being. There are plenty of ways to work and play with what I have without MIDI.
I do have Eucon/Avid Control working well with my iPad (another "oldie, but goodie" device) but it doesn't offer much for most of what I'd like to do - for the time being. I like the potential it offers; the physical units combined with the iPad would be a nice remote system. Extremely expensive for me, though.
The Presonus Faderport may be the most useful and least expensive unit that would give me some remote abilities, as well as a physical foot switch to use with my percussion setup.
Kind of sad I can't get the outdated stuff to work. Along with three tape recorders, an old Roland standalone digital recorder and the aforementioned units, I've got a whole bunch of e-waste sitting around.
Thanks for your help, Darryl!!