What's the deal with the Digi 003 direct inputs?

[Craig F]

Originally Posted by SpinningDisk

Hey albee1952. I'm a little confused here. So my SPDIF is higher quality. So plug in mic to 003 and use SPDIF out to PT?

no, you use a higher quaity mic pre & converter and go into the 003 via SPDIF (or Lightpipe)

[SpinningDisk]

Aaaaahhhhh. I've always wondered how that was done.
Thanks Craig.

[albee1952]

First off, you don't get 4 excellent preamps for $500(not without someone getting arrested). Second, define "excellent". It can mean different things to different people. I have a Focusrite ISA428 with 4 ISA preamps(got a great deal but still more than $500 and I already had the digital option card). Those are certainly "excellent" preamps, but my idea of "excellent" is something with a bit more character(the ISA's are clean, clear and transparent). My API-312 clones and Neve clones have the character that makes them more "excellent" for me.

There is also a second factor to consider; the converters. That's why using high-quality external preamps AND converters can be the best way as you bypass the 003 preamps(okay, but plain vanilla sound), AND you bypass the 003 converters(likely the cheapest available at the time). How much better ARE the converters in stuff these days? depends on the price point(mostly). Buying Behringer or Focusrite is probably on par or maybe a modest step up(as time passes, some things get better, and other things get cheaper). Now the API A2D connected via SPDIF represents(IMHO) a great pair of preamps with great converters(with the price to reflect the quality). If all you need are INPUTS, the Midas XL48 is a mighty good value(barely over $200 per channel). Its more than $500, but its also 8 channels instead of 4. and, FWIW, I compared kick and snare thru the XL48 and my Vintech 573's and the Midas won(the 573's are killer for electric guitars though)

[mesaone]

Midas XL48 is clutch. Especially after replacing the (fairly annoying) stock fan with a low-noise 40mm Noctua model.

Bonus is that it outputs ADAT, AES3, and analog in parallel. So it acts like a 5-way splitter (4 way if using S/MUX) if you need it to.

[Monaco]

Originally Posted by albee1952

First off, you don't get 4 excellent preamps for $500(not without someone getting arrested). Second, define "excellent". It can mean different things to different people. I have a Focusrite ISA428 with 4 ISA preamps(got a great deal but still more than $500 and I already had the digital option card). Those are certainly "excellent" preamps, but my idea of "excellent" is something with a bit more character(the ISA's are clean, clear and transparent). My API-312 clones and Neve clones have the character that makes them more "excellent" for me.

I was going off what you said about the Midas XL48 having 8 "excellent preamps" for $875. I just thought maybe there was something with half the channels at half the price. Basically... I need to figure out what I need. Let me start over.

I have a Great River 1NV and I don't want to waste it. It is my understanding that by plugging it directly in to the 003, I'll feel the wrath of it's mediocre converters. So then people are telling me to buy another preamp with better converters. So if I buy this Midas XL48, can I run my great river through that and use it for it's converters without preamping my signal a second time?

Secondly, I don't have a compressor or EQ and I would like to get a preamp with those built in. So if I could get 2 high quality channels for $1000, great. If I need to save up a little more then so be it. I just don't know what I need and what's available.

[albee1952]

Originally Posted by Monaco

I was going off what you said about the Midas XL48 having 8 "excellent preamps" for $875. I just thought maybe there was something with half the channels at half the price. Basically... I need to figure out what I need. Let me start over.

I have a Great River 1NV and I don't want to waste it. It is my understanding that by plugging it directly in to the 003, I'll feel the wrath of it's mediocre converters. So then people are telling me to buy another preamp with better converters. So if I buy this Midas XL48, can I run my great river through that and use it for it's converters without preamping my signal a second time?

Secondly, I don't have a compressor or EQ and I would like to get a preamp with those built in. So if I could get 2 high quality channels for $1000, great. If I need to save up a little more then so be it. I just don't know what I need and what's available.

I think some people are maybe acting a bit snobbish on this. I would not call the 003 converters crap at all, and a good engineer can make a good recording with an SM57 and an Mbox(and a bad engineer can make a crap recording with an SSL). I'm just offering suggestions to kick things up a notch or two in quality. There are so many facets of recording, that I doubt any single new piece of hardware is going to make you think; "Holy ****, how did I ever live without this?!" The 4 channel boxes that I know and recommend are more expensive(the ISA428 with digital is well over $1K and the API324 is over $2k). A pair of X-12(five fish audio) preamps can be built(complete with rack case and power supply) for under a grand, but you would still be using the 003 line inputs and converters. Come to think of it, try an ART Digital MPA via SPDIF into the 003. That's under $500 and will do a very good job(google for reviews of it and the Pro VLA II compressor)

[Monaco]

Originally Posted by albee1952

I think some people are maybe acting a bit snobbish on this. I would not call the 003 converters crap at all, and a good engineer can make a good recording with an SM57 and an Mbox(and a bad engineer can make a crap recording with an SSL). I'm just offering suggestions to kick things up a notch or two in quality. There are so many facets of recording, that I doubt any single new piece of hardware is going to make you think; "Holy ****, how did I ever live without this?!" The 4 channel boxes that I know and recommend are more expensive(the ISA428 with digital is well over $1K and the API324 is over $2k). A pair of X-12 (five fish audio) preamps can be built(complete with rack case and power supply) for under a grand, but you would still be using the 003 line inputs and converters. Come to think of it, try an ART Digital MPA via SPDIF into the 003. That's under $500 and will do a very good job(google for reviews of it and the Pro VLA II compressor)

Okay, so I save up and buy the ISA428... Then what do I do with the Great River? I would still need a converter no?

[albee1952]

Originally Posted by Monaco

Okay, so I save up and buy the ISA428... Then what do I do with the Great River? I would still need a converter no?

I'm still not convinced that the ISA is your best option, BUT, if you can get a great deal WITH the digital card, that digital card is actually good for 8 channels. So your Great River could be patched in(along with a few more analog preamps) and would show up as digital(ADAT) input #5(or 6,7,8). The Great River is still a great box and you can use it right now by connecting to one of the line inputs(5 thru 8). While that doesn't bypass the 003 converters, you will still get good sound.

Back to the ISA428, the optional digital card is kind of the "frosting on the cake". On the back of the unti you will find 4 XLR line level inputs that go directly to the A>D converters on the card. When I had the 003 in my setup, I had 4 preamps from an API lunchbox connected like that and it worked dandy. I am currently using the 428 connected analog to an HD IO. I am also using a Focusrite Octopre Mk II Dynamic(via lightpipe) and the Midas XL48(also lightpipe into a second HD IO). While I have not tried the Midas on everything, it absolutely kills on drums(shells, not cymbals) so my drum shell mics go into the Midas and my hat and overheads go into the ISA428

WARNING re the ISA428; the older Mk I version(with the VU meters) can have some PSU issues. Mine had to be rebuilt twice in 8 years. I replaced it with the newer Mk II version, which uses a switching PSU so its way more efficient, generates much less heat and sounds the same(to my ears, anyway) The original digital card WILL fit the newer 428(but some screws don't line up).