Feedback Elimination Plugin and other technical questions/requests

[darbyclash34]

I am working on a VENUE D-Show system at church, which is a converted dept. store, and is a difficult acoustic environment to work in. Certain elements of the stage were altered after the system was designed and built, and it creates many persistent problems. Is there a VENUE plugin for feedback elimination? We're getting the system tuned bit by bit, but such a plugin would be a great help for the time being.

Also, does anyone know how to use the headphone out to monitor the Mono bus? We run the system off of the Mono bus, and apply a graphic eq to the house speakers, and I would like to monitor the sound of eq curve.

Furthermore, it would be great if there was a way to display where in the signal chain a clip was occurring. I have seen the mono bus displaying a clip when it was peaking at -9. The ability to see a breakdown of where cliiping is occurring would be a great benefit.

I would like to propose a formal request for an option that applies an automatic +20db boost in the signal level of signals going out to a Pro Tools HDx interface. The recorded files would have a much better dynamic range, and less noisy. I hope I'm not over looking something basic, but it seems from the manual that this makes sense.

Thanks for any help!

Shawn Eib
Sounds like...Audio
Consulting and Technical Services

[dstagl]

Originally Posted by darbyclash34

I would like to propose a formal request for an option that applies an automatic +20db boost in the signal level of signals going out to a Pro Tools HDx interface. The recorded files would have a much better dynamic range, and less noisy. I hope I'm not over looking something basic, but it seems from the manual that this makes sense.

Shawn, I've been mixing on the Venue for three years, and I've never had a hard time getting healthy signal levels in Pro Tools. It sounds to me like you you should look at your system gain staging if your signal levels are low to the point that you need another 20 dB.

Dave

[Sheldon Radford]

Hi Shawn,

Good questions. Here are some thoughts...

Is there a VENUE plugin for feedback elimination?

Unfortunately not. I agree it'd be cool, though...

does anyone know how to use the headphone out to monitor the Mono bus?

There are two ways to do this. If the system is truly mono (not using LR at all), then you put the console in LCR mode (Options>System) with 100% center divergence (Options>Busses page). Make sure all inputs are panned center and assigned to the center channel, which is automatically summed to the monitor bus when Mix To Monitors is active.
Perhaps an easier method is to leave things in LR+Mono mode and use a mono matrix: assign the Mono bus as the input to the matrix, then AFL the matrix. To hear the effect of the mono bus pre-GEQ set the Matrix source to pre-fader for LR+M, and set the Mains master insert point to post-fader (Options>Pickoffs).

it would be great if there was a way to display where in the signal chain a clip was occurring.

Agreed. It's actually a tricky problem, given the number of clip points and the fact that multiple points can clip simultaneously. We're open to suggestions as to how to display all of that info in a meaningful way that doesn't result in visual overload.

I would like to propose a formal request for an option that applies an automatic +20db boost in the signal level of signals going out to a Pro Tools HDx interface. The recorded files would have a much better dynamic range, and less noisy.

Check out this article for some tips on recording Pro Tools using VENUE:
http://www.digidesign.com/index.cfm?...0&itemid=31930

One thing to keep in mind is that adding 20 dB of digital gain - although it would give hotter levels and nearly full-scale waveforms on the screen - would do nothing for the signal-to-noise ratio. The noise gets amplified along with the signal when using digital gain.

Sheldon

[Chris Johnson]

In regard to the ability to display where clipping is occuring (which ties in nicely with being able to select metering points, either globally or on a per-channel basis) - i would suggest adding clip indicators to the various 'panes' of the input and output display screens. for example, an indicator next to the plugin in/out buttons, EQ and Dynamics in/out buttons and one next to the gain control, would be a neat way to show what section of the input was clipping.

Chris

[darbyclash34]

Thank you for the detailed responses. Its a shame no one has made a feedback eliminator, you'd think that with the processing power available one could make an incredibly transparent plugin.

For my application, using the LCR method seems best, I'll try it tomorrow night.

The clip indication method Chris provided below is definitely an option. some kind of view of the current channel's signal path with a component thats clipping displayed in red would be my preference. or have a small error message pop up stating what just clipped. of course, that would have to be defeatable, cause i'm sure this would piss off a lot of people!

That article completely cleared up my concerns with the signal level and now have the opposite request: i want an option to have pro tools' faders display VENUE style! It'd be cool to be in the red again sometimes :)

[noclevername]

Originally Posted by darbyclash34

Its a shame no one has made a feedback eliminator, you'd think that with the processing power available one could make an incredibly transparent plugin.

I don't think I could ever feel comfortable with something automatically taking frequencies out of my mix. An alternative solution is to use the TrooTrace plugin (which unfortunately is no longer available), open up the mics you are having problems with, and run them into feedback. Then have a graphic on whatever you are having the problem with, mains or monitors, and take out some bad frequencies that way.
It probably wouldn't hurt to have someone who has SMAART experience to come at take a look at your system, there may be some problems that can be fixed with better timing or something else.

[Scott Fahy]

To add to what noclevername posted----A well designed system that has been set up properly should be able to be operated without feedback eliminators. If your having problems with feedback go back to the basics, system tuning, alignment, mic choice, monitor position.

Scott

FYI with our current system we have been able to push a DPA 4061 over the band at 95db C scale. Yes he does project well and the sonic quality of the mic was not the greatest but you could hear and understand everything he was saying.

[darbyclash34]

I definitely see your point on not wanting a feedback eliminator messing with your audio. I simply meant to use it while the other problems are getting sorted out.

We have TrooTrace, and it has been a big help at pin pointing problem frequencies. I think the fundamental problem is in the speaker placement. The mains almost certainly need to be rehung.

Thanks for the help guys!