School me on the 4 Cable Method

[fender126]

I know this has been covered in a general sense but I've never used the 4-cable method with a processor, let alone the 11R, so here it goes:

I hooked the 11R into my Marshall using this method but when I turned everything on, all I got was the amp effect from the 11R unit. When bypassed the amp effect I got nothing, even when switching the 11R effects loop off and on. Can someone pelase school me in the finer arts of this method? Specifically, what are the appropriate settings inside the 11R as far as rig outputs, etc., and how is everything controlled in terms of using the 11R preamp stuff and just using the effects. I mainly want to use the 11R for limited amp modeling (clean amps) and effects only. My Marshall is a Voodoo modded '76 MKII so it is only single channel which is why I want some amp modeling effects (clean).

As a matter of background, I am familiar with the 11R as I have been using it live with a power amp for nearly a year. What I am not familiar with is setting everything up (with the exception of how to connect the cables) to use the 4-cable method.

Your help is greatly appreciated. If I didn't describe something well enough, please let me know. Thanx.

[fender126]

Anybody?

[cbardDigi]

Hello Fender126. I am currently using the 11R with my Boogie Mark V and the 4 cable method. Works very well. As you say, gives a lot of options to use the 11 Amp models instead of your amp's pre. I am no expert at this, but a couple of things you might want to check;

- Make sure your amp's loop is always on.
- Make sure Cabs are disabled on the patches or set Output to Amp to "Rig output No Cab"
- To use your amp's pre, 11R loop is enabled(make sure loop mix is set to 100%), 11R Amp model disabled
- To use your 11R's amp models, 11R loop is disabled, 11R amp model enabled.
- For balancing, I don't use the rig balancing feature (I should probably look into that!). I use FX Loop return to balance my amp's 3 channels as needed and use Amp Out Vol (accessed on the signal chain view when amp is selected) to balance different amp models.

Hope this helps!

[brianiac5150]

"cbardDigi: ...I am currently using the 11R with my Boogie Mark V and the 4 cable method. Works very well. As you say, gives a lot of options to use the 11 Amp models instead of your amp's pre..."

As I, too, have a Mark V and have been considering using the Eleven Rack with it, do you mind telling me exactly how you have it connected?

[cbardDigi]

Originally Posted by brianiac5150

" As I, too, have a Mark V and have been considering using the Eleven Rack with it, do you mind telling me exactly how you have it connected?

I have it connected as follows;

Cable 1: Guitar -> 11R Guitar input
Cable 2: 11R Effect Send -> MV Input
Cable 3: MV Effect Send -> 11R Effect Return
Cable 4: 11R Output to Amp -> MV Effect Return

I have noticed using this setup that if the Master volume on the MV is too low, there is a nasally tone suck effect happening. Goes away as long as the Master is driven enough. So I keep my master about 9:30 and use a THD Hot Plate to back it down for lower volume when needed.

Good luck!

[brianiac5150]

Interesting. Thanks for the quick reply.

[fender126]

Originally Posted by cbardDigi

Hello Fender126. I am currently using the 11R with my Boogie Mark V and the 4 cable method. Works very well. As you say, gives a lot of options to use the 11 Amp models instead of your amp's pre. I am no expert at this, but a couple of things you might want to check;

- Make sure your amp's loop is always on.
- Make sure Cabs are disabled on the patches or set Output to Amp to "Rig output No Cab"
- To use your amp's pre, 11R loop is enabled(make sure loop mix is set to 100%), 11R Amp model disabled
- To use your 11R's amp models, 11R loop is disabled, 11R amp model enabled.
- For balancing, I don't use the rig balancing feature (I should probably look into that!). I use FX Loop return to balance my amp's 3 channels as needed and use Amp Out Vol (accessed on the signal chain view when amp is selected) to balance different amp models.


Hope this helps!

Thank you for the reply. I did mess around with it some more yesterday and when I "dimed" out the 11R effects loop to 100% on both the send and return, I got closer to the result I wanted. I did notice, as you mentioned in a later post, that my volume on the amp (Marshall) was significantly reduced. I'm not sure, but this could just be a setting somewhere within the controls in the 11R, such as output and rig volumes. What I did to check was leave the master volume on the amp where it was and then plug directly in, after which the volume was as expected. What I don't want is to have to use a Hotplate or something similar. I'll play around some more and see where we go.

On another note - for the best results did you need to move the FX loop in the 11R before the amp or just leave it where it is. My guess was to leave it where it is after the amp.

Also, I have some cases where I would like to use the 11R just for effects. Is there a different set-up for this?

[killdozer]

The volume was reduced because the 11R doesn't produce a hot enough signal to properly drive a power-amp at the right level. I have the same issue with mine as well. That is something the folks at Avid should have thought of in the design.

[fender126]

Originally Posted by killdozer

The volume was reduced because the 11R doesn't produce a hot enough signal to properly drive a power-amp at the right level. I have the same issue with mine as well. That is something the folks at Avid should have thought of in the design.

Interesting. That is a big negative. I messed around with things a little more today and just didn't like what I heard. I don't know if it was me or the settings between the unit and the 11R. I like the 11R and want to keep using it but find myself considering something like a Digitech GSP1101 which was designed to incorporate the 4CM is you want. I'm not quite sure the 11R was ever intended for such use.

[fender126]

Originally Posted by cbardDigi

Hello Fender126. I am currently using the 11R with my Boogie Mark V and the 4 cable method. Works very well. As you say, gives a lot of options to use the 11 Amp models instead of your amp's pre. I am no expert at this, but a couple of things you might want to check;

- Make sure your amp's loop is always on.
- Make sure Cabs are disabled on the patches or set Output to Amp to "Rig output No Cab"
- To use your amp's pre, 11R loop is enabled(make sure loop mix is set to 100%), 11R Amp model disabled
- To use your 11R's amp models, 11R loop is disabled, 11R amp model enabled.
- For balancing, I don't use the rig balancing feature (I should probably look into that!). I use FX Loop return to balance my amp's 3 channels as needed and use Amp Out Vol (accessed on the signal chain view when amp is selected) to balance different amp models.

Hope this helps!

I'm gonna spend some more time with the 11R and see if I can get it to work for me in the 4CM. I wanted to ask a few questions if you don't mind:

1. I noticed a volume drop in my amp when I initially hooked everything up. I think it is related to signal level. With that said, did you set the FX loop on the 11R (using switch on back) to line level or instrument level?

2. Did you move the Output to Amp or the FX loop in the signal chain in any of the presets for better results?

3. Do you use the 11R for effects only as well and how do you set this up? An example would be using my Marshall for the core tone and adding reverb and delay effects with the 11R.

I'm just looking for some extra info on how you set everything up inside the 11R. Thanx.