Pro Tools 5.1 export channel order

[Charles Deenen]

Hi,

This is something undocumented as far as I can tell, and a major pain in the rear when doing game audio production:

when somebody exports a 5.1 file from protools, how can we be 100% sure of the channel order in the file it exports ? Even AIF and WAV seem to produce different file-channel orders.

Please advice, help, explain.... please.

-cd

[dj_grimmace]

To the best of my knowledge, PT always bounces 5.1 files in standard film order: L, C, R, Ls, Rs, LFE.

[drenkrom]

Yep, Film format only. If you need them in a different order, a quick workaround is Sound Devices' WaveAgent (http://www.sounddevices.com/products/waveagent.htm) which has a split/combine module for combining WAV files into a multiplexed file from individual-channel bounces. You can assign files to different channel numbers, to match the system on which your mix will be used. I use it all the time to set up mixes for a video post house with a finicky machine. And it's free.

[Audio_Vision]

When working in Pro Tools, the tracks support Dolby order (LCRLsRsLFE). When doing a bounce to disk or exported as files command, you end up with discrete files, as Pro Tools doesn't support poly wave files in tracks or on export. Given the naming convention used by Pro Tools (.L, .R, etc) you should be able to just go to the audio files folder (or where ever you exported to) and pick the individual files, and then load into say, an AC-3 encoder program. Drenkrom is correct, if however, you need a poly wave in a specific format (SMPTE for example), then that is program for you.

[dbcsound]

Hi Charles!

I have been through this myself a million times. Here's what I know.

As everyone has stated, LCRLsRsLfe is the order that PT will output. And yes, it is possible to export poly files, you just can't import them back in.

When asked to delivery 5.1 poly as LRCLfeLsRs, I have taken my 5.1 track(LCR...), split it over 6 mono's, then re-ordered the tracks to LRCLfeLsRs and then "tricked" protools by renaming the files LCRLsRsLfe. Pop the files back on my 5.1 track and export. Voila! Its a pain, but effective. Simply re-ordering is not good enough its the naming that does it.

We have stopped providing this as a delivery because we cannot QC the file properly as we can with Discrete files and also, there is a 40min file length cap on 6track poly exports. So keep em short, and you're golden.

Hope that helps.

Peter

[ChrisMac]

Originally Posted by dbcsound

Hi Charles!

I have been through this myself a million times. Here's what I know.

As everyone has stated, LCRLsRsLfe is the order that PT will output. And yes, it is possible to export poly files, you just can't import them back in.

When asked to delivery 5.1 poly as LRCLfeLsRs, I have taken my 5.1 track(LCR...), split it over 6 mono's, then re-ordered the tracks to LRCLfeLsRs and then "tricked" protools by renaming the files LCRLsRsLfe. Pop the files back on my 5.1 track and export. Voila! Its a pain, but effective. Simply re-ordering is not good enough its the naming that does it.

We have stopped providing this as a delivery because we cannot QC the file properly as we can with Discrete files and also, there is a 40min file length cap on 6track poly exports. So keep em short, and you're golden.

Hope that helps.

Peter

Yup, that's what I am doing everyday now. New series that requires poly wav delivery for all 5.1 mixes. Took a while to figure out that the renaming was the trick, but it has sure saved my butt.

[pneyrinck]

For what it is worth, the Neyrinck SoundCode For Broadcast plug-in will export and import SMPTE ordered interleaved WAV files as an AudioSuite plug-in. Also, it can read/write files larger than 2 GB (PT is limited to 2 GB). Also, it can audition the files directly in Pro Tools as an RTAS plug-in. Just point the plug-in to the file and press play for playback from disk synchronized to the timeline. The plug-in has a lot of other features for exchanging audio and metadata with the Dolby DP600 so the cost may be more than you are looking to pay. But its Pro Tools integration will save you time.

Paul
www.neyrinck.com

[GrantFM]

Thanks for posting all this info guys. I would like to comment, and if anyone would like to correct me I am all for it, but while LCRLsRS LFE is the default layout for 5.1 in Pro Tools, it's my understanding that you can choose your output order when beginning a session ? If that's right, couldn't you output
LRC LFE LsRs if that's what your session was running in ?
Is this right, or am I missing something ?
Thanks.

[Audio_Vision]

You're correct, in the I/O setups page, you can have the default interface and bus outputs be any order you would like. Tracks however and meters are still in Dolby/film order regardless of your output format.

[tunespin]

Hi Charles,

do you know if digi has any plans to make SMPTE ITU an export method?

I also work in games and whenever I post a 5.1 NIS in pro tools I have to then import the 5.1 stems into sound forge and then drag them into a new sound forge 5.1 file in the correct order.

a huge waste of time - especially when I need to bounce out conformed stems for 20 NIS's! This means 20 times dragging 5 individual stems them into a new 5.1 file in sound forge and re ordering the stems. 100 more steps (quick but still painful) than if I was using nuendo.

Since I'm the only pro tools user at work (everyone else is on nuendo) I am the brunt of many jokes ala "wow...digi is so great eh? can't export the proper 5.1 order for video...hahahaha"

le sigh....

well...at least I'm not using nuendo!