Subscription for Carbon driver?

[Kyle Splittgerber]

Originally Posted by melodydetective

Hi Kyle - thanks for the reply.


I don’t mean to appear nitpicky, but what is the difference between “essentially class-compliant” and “class compliant?

This is exactly what I was concerned about. So I could get caught after an OS upgrade or something, because in addition to paying for the unit, at the moment I would have to pay for a license to update it. I hear that you are working on it, but it seems like a big ask to ask customers to commit to hardware that they might have to pay to update like that. They need to know that if they step away from the software, they have to be prepared for the loss of DSP, configurability and firmware updates. That scenario isn’t sounding too good to me as a long-time user who has arrived at the conclusion that PT for all of its strengths as an audio program (and they are many) is at the very least problematic for large composing templates, and the charm of having the DSP available is obscured by its solid marriage to PT software. Which I utterly understand the benefit of in general, so it kind of sounds like this box isn’t targeted at me, even if I still use PT to deliver sessions.

Preamp settings also, or can that be done via the front panel? And are the preamps available when using it with other DAWs?

Thanks for that clarification.

What if I needed to use a DSP plugin and then a host-based one on the VI? Does stepping out of the DSP realm in the Carbon and then going back to it incur latency?

Thanks again for your responses.

Happy to help.

#1 If by class-compliant you mean a driver is not required, then yes it's class compliant on Mac.

#2 Totally understand on your concern with firmware updates. I can't predict the future, but my philosophy is that firmware updates should be freely downloadable and installable outside of Pro Tools in the future.

#3 Preamp settings are always available via front panel. We don't currently have any kind of software control of preamps, but it's high on the priority list. In Pro Tools, Hardware Setup is currently the only way to change the monitor sets enabled (Main/Alt 1/Alt 2), headphone sources, dim level, and talkback gain. This may change in the future, but that's how it's done now.

#4 You cannot have DSP and Native plugins active simultaneously on a track. This is because DSP Mode automatically inactivates Native-only plugins (which VIs always are) in order to preserve low latency. What you can do it route the output of an Instrument track (with VI) to a track in DSP Mode. However, there is no monitoring latency benefit to doing that.

That clear things up?

[K Roche]

Originally Posted by Kyle Splittgerber

#4 You cannot have DSP and Native plugins active simultaneously on a track. This is because DSP Mode automatically inactivates Native-only plugins (which VIs always are) in order to preserve low latency. What you can do it route the output of an Instrument track (with VI) to a track in DSP Mode. However, there is no monitoring latency benefit to doing that.

That clear things up?

Well now I have to ask,,,, so if you are going to use a Native plugin in DSP safe mode , then It has to be on a different track than any tracks with DSP plugin/s activated ? So that would mean for example a separate AUX track for a Native reverb, rather than say having it on the same audio track with a DSP Comp or EQ activated ?

[Kyle Splittgerber]

Originally Posted by K Roche

Well now I have to ask,,,, so if you are going to use a Native plugin in DSP safe mode , then It has to be on a different track than any tracks with DSP plugin/s activated ? So that would mean for example a separate AUX track for a Native reverb, rather than say having it on the same audio track with a DSP Comp or EQ activated ?

Yes, a DSP Mode Safe track is one which is forced to stay Native. This allows workflows where you can route a track in DSP Mode to another track running Native-only plugins. For example, recording to a vocal track in DSP Mode with a send to an Aux track (in DSP Mode Safe) with a Native-only reverb plugin. The vocal track will be in low latency, but the Aux track will not. But, that's not a big deal because reverb is a time-based effect so the latency there will just be heard as pre-delay.

[K Roche]

Originally Posted by Kyle Splittgerber

Yes, a DSP Mode Safe track is one which is forced to stay Native. This allows workflows where you can route a track in DSP Mode to another track running Native-only plugins. For example, recording to a vocal track in DSP Mode with a send to an Aux track (in DSP Mode Safe) with a Native-only reverb plugin. The vocal track will be in low latency, but the Aux track will not. But, that's not a big deal because reverb is a time-based effect so the latency there will just be heard as pre-delay.

Hey thanks again That is what I thought but wanted to be sure And would not Auto Delay compensation help with any system delay ?

Actually I almost always use my Bricasti M7 hardware unit as my reverb for everything. So I am assuming that it being a "hardware insert" on it's own Aux track and being an I/O selection of the inserts section , it would not need to put in DSP safe. Honestly the one thing I wish was included on the Carbon that my Omni had was an AES in and out.... Given that the Bricasti it only has AES as the digital connections . So now I will have to use the analog I/O's on the Bricasti which is OK,,, but I liked the Idea of staying digital, and not having to do another round of A/D and D/A conversion

[LukeHoward]

Originally Posted by K Roche

Hey thanks again That is what I thought but wanted to be sure And would not Auto Delay compensation help with any system delay ?

Actually I almost always use my Bricasti M7 hardware unit as my reverb for everything. So I am assuming that it being a "hardware insert" on it's own Aux track and being an I/O selection of the inserts section , it would not need to put in DSP safe. Honestly the one thing I wish was included on the Carbon that my Omni had was an AES in and out.... Given that the Bricasti it only has AES as the digital connections . So now I will have to use the analog I/O's on the Bricasti which is OK,,, but I liked the Idea of staying digital, and not having to do another round of A/D and D/A conversion

RME does make an ADAT to AES/EBU converter but it is not cheap ($1K).

[K Roche]

Originally Posted by LukeHoward

RME does make an ADAT to AES/EBU converter but it is not cheap ($1K).

Thanks,,, but ya that's a bit pricey, lots of people just run the Bricasti in analog and seem to do fine. And given it is a Reverb unit even if there is some small extra latency because of going through the conversion, as noted it really just comes across as a bit of pre delay so not $1k worth of issue

[LukeHoward]

Originally Posted by K Roche

Thanks,,, but ya that's a bit pricey, lots of people just run the Bricasti in analog and seem to do fine. And given it is a Reverb unit even if there is some small extra latency because of going through the conversion, as noted it really just comes across as a bit of pre delay so not $1k worth of issue

I wouldn't worry about that, you can compensate for it with HW insert delay if you need to (presuming that works with Carbon and doesn't require Ultimate?), but it's generally a tiny amount easily absorbed into predelay.

It is a pity that AES/EBU I/O was left off both the MTRX Studio and Carbon though! One day everything will be connected with Ethernet, there will be one true audio protocol, etc etc.

[K Roche]

Originally Posted by LukeHoward

I wouldn't worry about that, you can compensate for it with HW insert delay if you need to (presuming that works with Carbon and doesn't require Ultimate?), but it's generally a tiny amount easily absorbed into predelay.

It is a pity that AES/EBU I/O was left off both the MTRX Studio and Carbon though! One day everything will be connected with Ethernet, there will be one true audio protocol, etc etc.

Actually I am going to take the option to extend my current Ultimate update/support plan.

But what I have found that even with with my analog outboard Comp, that because it already shows an amount of compensation on it's Aux track I assume from (ADC) being activated , without entering anything on "HW Insert" I assume it's being handled ?

[Kyle Splittgerber]

Originally Posted by K Roche

Actually I am going to take the option to extend my current Ultimate update/support plan.

But what I have found that even with with my analog outboard Comp, that because it already shows an amount of compensation on it's Aux track I assume from (ADC) being activated , without entering anything on "HW Insert" I assume it's being handled ?

For HD interfaces (HD I/O, HD OMNI, HD MADI) and Carbon we automatically compensate for HW Insert delay. This is unique to these Avid interfaces because we know the ADC/DAC latency figures and can automatically compensate. This is not the case with third party interfaces as Pro Tools has no idea what the converter delay is (I know a "ping" feature has been requested to resolve this).

If Carbon could support optical S/PDIF, would something like this resolve your issue with connecting the M7 via AES?

[K Roche]

Originally Posted by Kyle Splittgerber

For HD interfaces (HD I/O, HD OMNI, HD MADI) and Carbon we automatically compensate for HW Insert delay. This is unique to these Avid interfaces because we know the ADC/DAC latency figures and can automatically compensate. This is not the case with third party interfaces as Pro Tools has no idea what the converter delay is (I know a "ping" feature has been requested to resolve this).

If Carbon could support optical S/PDIF, would something like this resolve your issue with connecting the M7 via AES?

Ah good to know, I was wondering because I had never noticed a problem with my HW inserts with my Omni ...

Honestly connecting the Bricasti via analog is not a big issue for me and I will do so on the Analog DB 25 , Which will still leave the 8 mic/line inputs free.
I actually only have 3 HW units ....
#1 A-Designs MP2A two channel mic pre (which I will run it's Out's into the (Input ) DB 25)
#2 IGS TubeCore 3U two channel Compressor ...... In's and Out's to the DB25 's
#3 Bricasti Two channel ....In's and Out's to the DB25's

I am not commercial, and only record myself, and so the Max number of mic's I might use at one time are 3 ,,,,,,so I see the Carbon as being perfect for my minimal self recording artist type needs.

I suppose that Hosa adaptor box would work ( but I am not an electrical engineer), Also thought the Carbon does not have a S/PDIF optical ports anyway, So I don't understand ? Or are you just asking for future reference ?

One more quick question, I think I remember on one of the numerous video reviews something about the input jacks being "smart connections " and was given to understand anything plugged into either the 2 front panel jacks or the 8 combi XLR's on the back, will automatically override any DB 25 connection's, correct ?" So once set up in the I/O matrix I don't have to change anything other than plugging or unplugging the jacks as needed ?