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  #1  
Old 06-06-2004, 10:43 AM
john key john key is offline
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Default creating a DJ (continuous) mix cd in PT

I have been asked to help w/creating a continuous DJ (continuous) mix compilation and I was wondering if anyone has done this who would also have some hints/tips to look out for in doing so.
As you can probably imagine, we will be importing various dance tracks into a PT session and doing all the work in there. Here are some thoughts I have:

-How would it be best to beat match each new track with its predecessor so as to maintain a smooth flow?
-What is the best way to gradually and smoothly increase the tempo during this mix/session by about 10 bpm's from the beginning of the session to the end?
-What method have you used to maintain a steady overall volume during such a session?
-I'm still in Mix Plus land and I will be doing all the code editing in Masterlist.
-This CD is going to be released commercially
-Any thing else that anyone can think of would be greatly appreciated.

THANKS!!!
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  #2  
Old 06-06-2004, 02:40 PM
Dutchmuzik Dutchmuzik is offline
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Default Re: creating a DJ (continuous) mix cd in PT

Quote:

-How would it be best to beat match each new track with its predecessor so as to maintain a smooth flow?
-What is the best way to gradually and smoothly increase the tempo during this mix/session by about 10 bpm's from the beginning of the session to the end?
-What method have you used to maintain a steady overall volume during such a session?
-I'm still in Mix Plus land and I will be doing all the code editing in Masterlist.
-This CD is going to be released commercially
-Any thing else that anyone can think of would be greatly appreciated.

First of do you have any DJ experience ? There is much more involved than just "beat matching" the tracks, mostly creativity as to how to make it smooth and interesting and keeping the energy going.
I use Serato Pitch 'n Time to match BPMs. I EQ and level every track matching them by skipping from one to the next and comparing EQ and volume. To start off with you should set your levels of the imported audio at say -8db, that way when you come to the "mix" the volume won't clip because of the 2 tracks playing at the same time. Put an L2 on the master to level it back out. Make sure you put a 0 offset on your IDs for the CD so that there is no pause when going to the next track. Usually you would start with your lowest BPM track and build it up. After the transition to the next song you can increase that by say 1-2 BPM depending on how it feels. Hope this helps.
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  #3  
Old 06-06-2004, 02:49 PM
PastaViking II PastaViking II is offline
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Default Dance mixes in PT: A real pain in the *****!

Hm, you're got a real ball buster problem there but there are several solutions:

The most obvious is to get everything on vinyl and get a good DJ to mix it all together. This is the method used on many big UK comps. The result sounds pleasing even if you can hear vinyl clicks and pops every now and then. Another solution in the same vein is to do the same with two good CD players with pitch control. The benefit of both methods is that you have much better feel for the mix and you can always redo a particular mix and splice it in with the rest in PT.

If you're totally obsessed with sound quality (then you shouldn't be in the dance music business! ) you could try to do a combination of pitching (w/o time streching) and beat detective to mix the two tracks. Unfortunately, bpm shifts are difficult in PT when applied to a complete mix. Both Serato's "Pitch and Time" and Soundtoy's "Speed" provide for BPM curves (you draw the speed) but in my experience both tend to make the track sound "chorused". But if you still insist on doing everything in edit rather than a real mix (which I think is both easier and sounds better) I would first do my pitching (if needed) and then cut the faded parts of the material to beat and bring it into Ableton Live which sounds better for this particular need.

I've done many crossfade dance mixes in PT and it always requires a bit of planning. Also, remember that a good DJ not only works with the BPM control during a mix but also the tone controls to create a smooth transition.

Finally, you might want to examine some of the DJ mixing software on the market like Native Instruments' "Traktor". This might be just the thing you're looking for without even having to bother with PT...

Good luck and let me know if you discover a better way!

xoxo pv
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  #4  
Old 06-06-2004, 06:10 PM
Dutchmuzik Dutchmuzik is offline
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Default Re: Dance mixes in PT: A real pain in the *****!

Actually all the so called "live dj mixed" CDs, are mostly done in ProTools. If you hear the vinyl crackles it's because vinyl was recorded into PT. But all the mixing was done in PT.
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  #5  
Old 06-07-2004, 11:04 AM
senyc senyc is offline
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Default Re: creating a DJ (continuous) mix cd in PT

Hey John. Why don't you mix the thing yourself? Then just master it. Also, is "Hold On" or any other productions of yours gonna be included in the compilation? Just curious. Good luck, regardless.
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  #6  
Old 06-07-2004, 11:13 AM
myshell myshell is offline
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Default Re: Dance mixes in PT: A real pain in the *****!

I use Ableton Live for my live electronic dance act and have been quite satisfied. Even though I play my own original tracks/loops, I do have to "beatmatch" when I perform remixes on the fly. It is very easy to do with Live. I just "warpmark" sections of audio in preperation before the show. I have had to timestretch long stretches of audio and I feel the sound quality is excellent. I think it would be acceptable to use Ableton Live in a DJ style continuous mix in conjunction with Pro Tools. Of course you have to have PT Version 6.1 and up I believe.

Myshell

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  #7  
Old 06-09-2004, 04:47 AM
john key john key is offline
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Default Re: creating a DJ (continuous) mix cd in PT

Hey everyone!

Thanks for all of your posts. I just went ahead and copy-pasted all of your notes into a Word document and printed them so that I can have all the info in front of me...

There is one thing though that has come up regarding Pitch'n'Time. I have noticed that when I time stretch or compress a track, thus altering its bpm count by even as little as 1 bpm, I still get that annoying "flanging/chorus" effect, which just bugs me. I am waiting to install the new version of the plug today to see if they have taken care of this problem.

Another thing is that when I try to enter a manual tempo change in the session, the tempo change marker won't allow me to place it (the event) exactly on the grid. For example, if a mix between tracks is going on at 127 bpm and I want the tempo to change to 127.5 bpm as soon as the new track starts playing on its own (on the first beat of a 4/4 measure) I can't get the tempo to change exactly at that point.

The DJ I am working on this with says that he had seen someone else in the studio who had a program that would allow for the user to graphically alter the pitch in a session. What he described to me reminded me very much of the way we pencil in automation in PT. I am clearly unaware of any plug like this so, if anyone does know of this magical plug, please enlighten. I know that you can do something like this in the P'n'T window with that line/curve thingy but the problem there is that you really don't know what the exact bpm is you're ending up with, once you curve it up. Correct?

And one last thing for my fellow poster senyc: I was just curious about how you might have gotten your copy of "Hold On." ??? And the answer to your question is no, it will not be on the cd, as the format of said cd is more on the progressive/trance side.

Thanks again!
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  #8  
Old 06-28-2004, 06:53 PM
slangification slangification is offline
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Default Re: creating a DJ (continuous) mix cd in PT

Check out Traktor at www.nativeinstruments.com
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  #9  
Old 06-29-2004, 01:21 AM
toolskid666 toolskid666 is offline
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Default Re: creating a DJ (continuous) mix cd in PT

Sorry if this repeats a lot of stuff, but it may still be helpful!

:

If you are not wanting a beat-matched mix then this may not be useful, but if u are:

1) Beat-match all the tracks and then just nudge things around and tighten things up a little!

This is by far the best way of getting a good mix cd happening, but if you are not in the position to do this and do not have cdj1000s or stacks of vinyl, a deck, and sum DJ chops then keep reading.

2) If you are ripping stuff straight off CD then invest a few ££s in 'Ableton Live'. In a recent mix-cd job, I had prepped every track in 'Live' and ended up doing all the editing and mixing on a single tempo grid . You have to be very careful when placing warp markers that you are not just flattening out the groove of the track just to make it line up with the grid. You may need to separate regions within a single track and use a different warp mode on small parts to get the best results too!

3) DONT serato whole tracks - even small changes will mess up your transients - even with improved transient performance enabled!
You can get away, however, with a bit of timestretch on particularly difficult mix sections, or use it as an effect.

4) If there are particularly difficult same-tempo mixes, just treat the whole track as you would a drum-break. Chop it to pieces and realign the grooves for mix sections! Beat detective is good for this, but you may even find over short sections, tab to transient works better for you.

5) You can get some great mixes and effects by recycing whole sections of tracks and playing the mix sections against each other in 'Reason' using the 'dr rex player'.

6) Re; gradually increasing tempo: 'Ableton Live' when running in rewire mode, will follow tempo markers in tools, so this a very easy way to increase tempo gradually or more urgently in certain sections. If your selection of tracks gradually increases in tempo and you just have difficult mix sections, the creation of an increasing tempo grid between one track and another and then manual chopping and realiging of the tracks always seems to work best for me. You could try time-stretching each bar of the mix on the same tempo-changing grid, but you will notice it if it is done to both tracks!

7) Re: maintaining a consistent level: I am generally running a t-racks soft limiter or perhaps L2 on my pre-master fader and perhaps giving some tracks a little gentle limiting and eq to maintain some consistency. Trim-plugin automation and a good hot level at the outset helps a lot. If you have any really damaged tracks the waves restoration bundle is usually very helpful.

8) dont bounce to disk - bus all your tracks to an auxilary (i call it my pre-master fader) then bus its output to a stereo audio track. Just record your mix in, then (shft-apple-K) and export it as the stereo file of your choice. I find this gives more accurate automation, you can stop and correct any mistakes you hear as its going down (make sure you consolidate before exporting it) and its always useful to have the master mix in Tools as an original split-stereo file.

hope it helps

em
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