Low-latency input muted during playback-HD Native

[bashville]

You get sound only in record when the sequence is playing. With the green light only (edit: I mean input monitoring ON, but not in record), the sound disappears in playback. If the transport is stopped, then it works in input mode. When it works, the audio does come through properly with no latency. During playback (not recording) the input is muted. Also annoyingly the output setting in the I/O panel for low latency monitoring keeps having to be reset upon subsequent re-openings of the session.

In input during playback, the visual level also disappears, not just the audio output. So the input is being blocked.

PT 10.3.3, Mac OS 10.8.2

See my sig for the setup--possibly not all approved, but every other aspect of the system working. Checking if anybody else has had to deal with this, and how they fixed it. Thanks!

[smfelton]

If i'm understanding you correctly, what you are describing is normal operation. Your input is muted during playback, as you are playing back, if you want to hear the input you have to either record enable the track or switch input monitoring on. In this mode you here the input but the track is 'muted'.

Sorry I don'y use low latency so I cant comment.

[bashville]

Forgive me if the post is unclear. The problem is that input monitoring IS switched on, the green button is "lit", but when the session begins playing, the input gets killed for some reason. That's the bug I'm describing.

And it only seems to happen when low latency monitoring is active.

[ChuckS]

Is you output path for LLM configured correctly in I/O setup? Or maybe with 3rd party interfaces, it's the same as non-HD PT where LLM is restricted to the first 2 physical outputs in I/O setup.

[bashville]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

Is you output path for LLM configured correctly in I/O setup? Or maybe with 3rd party interfaces, it's the same as non-HD PT where LLM is restricted to the first 2 physical outputs in I/O setup.

Yes--I use channels 7 and 8 out of my 192 attached to the HD-Native card. I'm constantly having to check this because the setting is not being saved for some reason on subsequent re-openings of the session. But once it's selected, it works, and stays selected for as long as the session is open. I have the separate outs connected to an alternate input on my Mackie Big Knob.

Again, the "low-latency" feature itself works; you can hear it when audio is being passed that the delay disappears. If I start the transport in record mode, it works properly (actually recording). And you can also hear it in input mode alone when the transport is stopped. It's when you start playback without recording that the input monitoring fails. The song is playing, input monitoring is supposed to be activated (green button is selected), but the channel is not passing audio.

[bashville]

And yes, when it's not in LLM, input monitoring works fine with the track set to the same ins and outs.

I would love to just set my buffer to 64 and not worry about it, but for those sessions with VI's running, the buffer has to be at 256.

[WernerF]

Not to start a whole new debate here but, doesn't this just point out the fact that DSP based systems are a heck of a lot less of a pain in the a__, as far as workarounds go, than Native based systems? Food for thought.....?

[bashville]

Well the first thing I'm trying to find out in a post like this is if it's happening to anybody else, indicating a software bug, or if it's user error on my part.

If it's something that can be fixed, then we've taken a step towards doing something to alleviate the disadvantage of not being on a DSP system. It's another step towards the Native dream.

But yes, if this reflects the state of Native, then clearly DSP systems have the advantage, if you can deal with the extra layout for them. There are other things going on that make the native experience feel kludge-y, especially with having plug inserts on the record channel. Some of them behave like you expect, like going into bypass when you have LLM on when the track is in input. But other plugs work (you just hunt and peck by experience to figure out which ones). Then other plugs look like they're going into bypass, but they still actually work.

My big picture problem is finding a high-integrity system for mixing along with meeting my requirements for composing with a lot of midi and VI's when I need to do that sort of project. I'm on the edge of having that sort of system now, along with the added promise of the portability of the laptop. I'm also playing around with Reaper, but I don't know it well enough yet to know if I can really mix the way I want to on it.

I actually think the hardware has the power necessary for the task, but that the software isn't quite solid enough to take advantage of it properly. And not just ProTools, but all the third-parties as well.

[WernerF]

It seems that, if your workflow is mix as you go, a Native system still has numerous issues to overcome. Personally, I want to be able to overdub onto a mix that sounds the way that I want it to as opposed to having to listen to a different sounding version of it just because a track has been put into record. No latency input monitoring works totally as advertised on any HDX or TDM system. Unfortunately, no responder seems to have completely understood your problem and answered with an acknowledgement that they are seeing the same behavior on their Native system. It would be quite illuminating to know whether or not this is a universal issue with Native systems in general, not to mention a great help to you either way.

[bashville]

Originally Posted by WernerF

It seems that, if your workflow is mix as you go, a Native system still has numerous issues to overcome. Personally, I want to be able to overdub onto a mix that sounds the way that I want it to as opposed to having to listen to a different sounding version of it just because a track has been put into record. No latency input monitoring works totally as advertised on any HDX or TDM system. Unfortunately, no responder seems to have completely understood your problem and answered with an acknowledgement that they are seeing the same behavior on their Native system. It would be quite illuminating to know whether or not this is a universal issue with Native systems in general, not to mention a great help to you either way.

Yes I am trying to make it a "mix as you go" experience. I had a TDM HD4 Accel system for many years, so that is what I'm used to. I wanted to stay current with the software and decided to throw in my lot with the HD-Native card. Honestly I've gotten pretty close to my desired working situation, but stuff like this throws a wrench into it. I think many people just set their system to a low buffer which I can't do using VI's. I'd be surprised if nobody else is familiar with using LLM--if so then maybe few people have use for what is supposed to be a key selling point of the native system.