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  #1  
Old 03-21-2018, 05:22 AM
vudoo vudoo is offline
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Default Dolby Atmos inquiry

I have a question about the Dolby hardware RMU and Dolby Atmos production and mastering suite.

We want to set up a small/mid-size mixing/editing room. The speaker set up will be 11.1 (7.1 + four overhead) and we will be using a Protools HD/Avid S6 rig + DAD and QSC Qsys for monitoring and room calibration.

The room will also be equipped with a Christie projector and Doremi DCP server.

I’m a bit confused whether we need to buy/license a hardware RMU or the Dolby Atmos production and mastering suite will do.

Thanks

Last edited by vudoo; 03-22-2018 at 06:01 AM.
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  #2  
Old 03-21-2018, 06:27 AM
clipgod clipgod is offline
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Default Re: Dolby Atmos inquiry

Hi Anthu,

I had a meeting with Dolby Germany last week, and they told me for a licensed Atmos Home Studio, you need the hardware RMU. Also keep in mind, Delay Compensation doesn`t really work with the Software Suite.

Hope this helps,
Nico
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  #3  
Old 03-21-2018, 06:40 AM
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mgoorevich mgoorevich is offline
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Default Re: Dolby Atmos inquiry

A time ago I initiated a thread on Gearslutz forum.
All you should know about this subject is there:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/post...ing-stage.html
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  #4  
Old 03-22-2018, 05:57 PM
vudoo vudoo is offline
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Default Re: Dolby Atmos inquiry

Anyone here has experience with the Home Theater RMU ?

Are the outputs connected directly to the monitors ?

I guess most HT use the crappy sound bar, but how about discrete overhead monitors for home theatre ?
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  #5  
Old 03-22-2018, 10:57 PM
C C is offline
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Default Re: Dolby Atmos inquiry

There are 3 flavors of Renderer.

1/ Theatrical - Available as a loan if your room is using an appropriate number of speakers for the space that you have, is of sufficient size to represent a theatrical environment and you are producing theatrical Atmos soundtracks. MPSA contract applies for titles produced in these rooms.

2/ Home Theatrical/Mastering Suite - Available to purchase from resellers. Requires a specific SKU of Dell workstation and MADI cards from RME. This is the model and configuration that was qualified for the software to run on as being capable of consistently mastering Home theatre content.

3/ Production Suite - Available for anyone with $299 and an Avid store account. The only supported master creation is for VR and has been pointed out in numerous places there is no Delay Compensation support for this software. While there are work arounds for this limitation it is one of the reasons why only VR workflows are supported as the deliverable requirements are so much lower than Home Theatre.

In the theatrical renderer you are able to have up to 64 speaker channels configured that feed out of the first MADI card in the Renderer into the B-chain processors (BSS, QSC etc) for EQ/Delay etc then from the processor to amps. The theatrical renderer also has a EQ/Delay section which can perform processing for room calibration on a per speaker and array basis.

In the home theatrical renderer and production suite you can configure up to 22 speakers, this maximum configuration would be 5 across the front, 2 pairs of walls, 5 pairs of overheads, 1 pair of rears and a sub. In reality most rooms with these renderers top out at a 9.1.6 configuration and more commonly 7.1.4.

The idea with Atmos is that it is a channel independent renderer that preserves the placement of sound sources in a space regardless of the number of speakers. So in a 64 channel room you might place a sound source in a particular speaker in one of the wall positions, each renderer will 'know' if there is a speaker at that location in the room in which the content is being played back and if there isn't a speaker in that location will use surrounding speakers to render the sound into that location, with a combination of many factors including pan law, power preservation, psychoacoustic processing etc.

These same principles are applied to soundbar reproduction and the upward firing speaker configurations available in home theater markets.

So to answer your questions directly:

Quote:
I have a question about the Dolby hardware RMU and Dolby Atmos production and mastering suite.
Hopefully I've clarified this already

Quote:
We want to set up a small/mid-size mixing/editing room. The speaker set up will be 11.1 (7.1 + four overhead) and we will be using a Protools HD/Avid S6 rig + DAD and QSC Qsys for monitoring and room calibration.
If you are creating masters for blu ray/ OTT delivery you will need the Mastering Suite, if you are purely doing editorial for later mix in a capable room then you can use the Production Suite for this editorial purpose

Quote:
The room will also be equipped with a Christie projector and Doremi DCP server.
Awesome! Make sure to add another path in your processor to accept output from the DoReMi that can utilize the same tuning you establish for the output from your Atmos creation environment


Quote:
I’m a bit confused whether we need to buy/license a hardware RMU or the Dolby Atmos production and mastering suite will do.
If you are creating MXFs for DCP creation then you will need a Theatrical Renderer which is a loan item for a qualified room. If you are creating masters for blu ray/ OTT delivery you will need the Mastering Suite, if you are purely doing editorial for later mix in a capable room then you can use the Production Suite for this editorial purpose

Quote:
Anyone here has experience with the Home Theater RMU ?

Are the outputs connected directly to the monitors ?
Yes I have some experience. No they are connected to the DA'd output from the MADI cards of the Renderer which is more often than not output from the post-processor amplification.

Quote:
I guess most HT use the crappy sound bar, but how about discrete overhead monitors for home theatre ?
Few installs in the home environment will have in-ceiling speakers, those that do will also tend to have 6 speakers built in. Upward firing speakers would be the next best thing but if you have vaulted ceilings then this is not your solution, nor is the sound bar. The soundbars are pretty good at reproducing the sound field as are the built in Atmos capable TVs. Some solutions also offer extra surround speakers to support the front sound bar which is worth investigating.

If you have a Samsung S9 then you have Atmos capable playback in your pocket via headphones and if you are a PC user or xBox gamer then you too can decode Atmos at home via a receiver or over headphones with the Dolby Access application.

Why is this important?

Playback is not just confined to properly set up home theaters, the mixes that are created are scalable from 64 speakers right down to 2 channel output via headphones.

Hope that helps,

Ceri
A Dolby Guy.
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  #6  
Old 03-23-2018, 12:40 AM
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mgoorevich mgoorevich is offline
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Default Re: Dolby Atmos inquiry

Quote:
Originally Posted by C View Post
There are 3 flavors of Renderer.

1/ Theatrical - Available as a loan if your room is using an appropriate number of speakers for the space that you have, is of sufficient size to represent a theatrical environment and you are producing theatrical Atmos soundtracks. MPSA contract applies for titles produced in these rooms.

2/ Home Theatrical/Mastering Suite - Available to purchase from resellers. Requires a specific SKU of Dell workstation and MADI cards from RME. This is the model and configuration that was qualified for the software to run on as being capable of consistently mastering Home theatre content.

3/ Production Suite - Available for anyone with $299 and an Avid store account. The only supported master creation is for VR and has been pointed out in numerous places there is no Delay Compensation support for this software. While there are work arounds for this limitation it is one of the reasons why only VR workflows are supported as the deliverable requirements are so much lower than Home Theatre.

In the theatrical renderer you are able to have up to 64 speaker channels configured that feed out of the first MADI card in the Renderer into the B-chain processors (BSS, QSC etc) for EQ/Delay etc then from the processor to amps. The theatrical renderer also has a EQ/Delay section which can perform processing for room calibration on a per speaker and array basis.

In the home theatrical renderer and production suite you can configure up to 22 speakers, this maximum configuration would be 5 across the front, 2 pairs of walls, 5 pairs of overheads, 1 pair of rears and a sub. In reality most rooms with these renderers top out at a 9.1.6 configuration and more commonly 7.1.4.

The idea with Atmos is that it is a channel independent renderer that preserves the placement of sound sources in a space regardless of the number of speakers. So in a 64 channel room you might place a sound source in a particular speaker in one of the wall positions, each renderer will 'know' if there is a speaker at that location in the room in which the content is being played back and if there isn't a speaker in that location will use surrounding speakers to render the sound into that location, with a combination of many factors including pan law, power preservation, psychoacoustic processing etc.

These same principles are applied to soundbar reproduction and the upward firing speaker configurations available in home theater markets.

So to answer your questions directly:



Hopefully I've clarified this already



If you are creating masters for blu ray/ OTT delivery you will need the Mastering Suite, if you are purely doing editorial for later mix in a capable room then you can use the Production Suite for this editorial purpose



Awesome! Make sure to add another path in your processor to accept output from the DoReMi that can utilize the same tuning you establish for the output from your Atmos creation environment




If you are creating MXFs for DCP creation then you will need a Theatrical Renderer which is a loan item for a qualified room. If you are creating masters for blu ray/ OTT delivery you will need the Mastering Suite, if you are purely doing editorial for later mix in a capable room then you can use the Production Suite for this editorial purpose



Yes I have some experience. No they are connected to the DA'd output from the MADI cards of the Renderer which is more often than not output from the post-processor amplification.



Few installs in the home environment will have in-ceiling speakers, those that do will also tend to have 6 speakers built in. Upward firing speakers would be the next best thing but if you have vaulted ceilings then this is not your solution, nor is the sound bar. The soundbars are pretty good at reproducing the sound field as are the built in Atmos capable TVs. Some solutions also offer extra surround speakers to support the front sound bar which is worth investigating.

If you have a Samsung S9 then you have Atmos capable playback in your pocket via headphones and if you are a PC user or xBox gamer then you too can decode Atmos at home via a receiver or over headphones with the Dolby Access application.

Why is this important?

Playback is not just confined to properly set up home theaters, the mixes that are created are scalable from 64 speakers right down to 2 channel output via headphones.

Hope that helps,

Ceri
A Dolby Guy.
Admins, that should be a sticky!!!!
Finaly a full answer regarding this issue.
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  #7  
Old 03-23-2018, 05:29 AM
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dr sound dr sound is offline
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Default Re: Dolby Atmos inquiry

Ceri!
Thank you for giving a precise defining description of the capabilities of each Dolby Atmos tool.

A couple of weeks ago when we were waiting for the valet to get our cars and you went over quickly each version and its's capabilities I am glad you spelled it out here in detail!

For those of you who don't know Ceri, he is an amazingly talented Dolby engineer who speaks with a funny accent

Thanks again for posting here!!
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  #8  
Old 03-23-2018, 10:10 AM
tom_lowe tom_lowe is offline
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Default Re: Dolby Atmos inquiry

Quote:
Originally Posted by C View Post

3/ Production Suite - Available for anyone with $299 and an Avid store account. The only supported master creation is for VR and has been pointed out in numerous places there is no Delay Compensation support for this software. While there are work arounds for this limitation
Hi Ceri, are you able to detail the workarounds for ACD not being available?

I was talking to the HHB guys at BVE a couple of weeks ago, and they said the the Production Suite is capable of creating a .atmos master, just it can't be output to a delivery format.

I wasn't entirely convinced of this being the case, can you shed some light?
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  #9  
Old 03-23-2018, 12:46 PM
C C is offline
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Default Re: Dolby Atmos inquiry

The official answer is the ones you received from HHB and the workaround for ACD actually increases the need for a hardware unit to print as it further increases the CPU load that could cause the issue.

Basically using Time Adjuster plugins on the Bed and Object channels you are able to retime the communication sufficiently to compensate for ADC not functioning. Send a pop via the Bed and record the output from the renderer, make note of sample value, then send a pop from an object and do the same. Insert TimeAdjusters in all Renderer send positions and set Bed's to the Bed value and Objects to the Object Value then perform the test again.

All signals should be uniformly delayed and the pops line up appropriately. From there you have a consistent basis to cut from along with Video Delay etc but have added to the overhead of the system to the point that metadata and audio recording may be compromised.

Production suite is still only supported for VR master creation all other masters need a hardware unit.

Thanks
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  #10  
Old 03-23-2018, 04:32 PM
tom_lowe tom_lowe is offline
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Default Re: Dolby Atmos inquiry

Quote:
Originally Posted by C View Post
The official answer is the ones you received from HHB and the workaround for ACD actually increases the need for a hardware unit to print as it further increases the CPU load that could cause the issue.

Basically using Time Adjuster plugins on the Bed and Object channels you are able to retime the communication sufficiently to compensate for ADC not functioning. Send a pop via the Bed and record the output from the renderer, make note of sample value, then send a pop from an object and do the same. Insert TimeAdjusters in all Renderer send positions and set Bed's to the Bed value and Objects to the Object Value then perform the test again.

All signals should be uniformly delayed and the pops line up appropriately. From there you have a consistent basis to cut from along with Video Delay etc but have added to the overhead of the system to the point that metadata and audio recording may be compromised.

Production suite is still only supported for VR master creation all other masters need a hardware unit.

Thanks
Thanks Ceri. Obviously meant ADC not ACD! So with a .Atmos file can you take that to another studio and render through their RMU?

Cheers.
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