PT12 and advertised features

[ShiftStudios]

Originally Posted by junkgear

Okay everyone, let's calm down. Shift got an answer from Support and there is no reason for personal shots. This thread will be locked if this continues.

or alternatively, you could just start moderating the people that go around admittedly stirring the pot... locking a thread does not solve that problem.

[ShiftStudios]

Originally Posted by deanrichard

Cloud collaboration was announced at NAB, in April of 2014. Coming soon. Initially it was advertised as part of PT12, which was announced Jan 2015, and released end of March 2015, but prior to that subscriptions were sold last fall (don't know the date) with the promise they would include PT12, and by extension, the cloud collaboration feature.

I'm no lawyer, but I would think there is a strong case that the Australian legal requirements will have not been met by fall of 2015, (a year after upgrades were being sold) which is coming up soon. If not then, certainly by the one-year anniversary of the PT 12 announcement.

Yes deanrichard, thank you. That is what I'm getting at. Initially it was advertised as such. And if you're taking money at the point that you're advertising it (which they were with support plans), then you are legally bound by it. You can't just change your mind about what you're going to give for the money someone pays.

[ShiftStudios]

For the record this page right here, as stored from a snapshot of the site by the waybackmachine is legally binding enough. My perception was that Pro Tools 12 would have cloud collaboration, and it still doesnt...

http://web.archive.org/web/201503191...tools-software

According to Australian law, my perception is what's important, not their "intention". If a reasonable person would have assumed that Cloud collaboration was a part of 12 when it was released, which i'm sure you'll find most would, and that is not delivered, then by our lawful definition, they have breached their sales contract and not only am I entitled to a full refund, but there's a very real chance AVID will get hit with a "false and misleading" advertising fine, and those are very large.

Or this page when it was released and it still has "Cloud Collaboration" on it.

http://web.archive.org/web/201503251...Tools-Software

Though "Get Credit, Get Paid" has "coming soon". Strange how that would but Cloud Collab doesn't... unless of course they were trying to be intentionally misleading...

[lachlan]

Hi ShiftStudios,

I read the link you supplied about "Valve"
AVID are breaching Australian Federal law in the same way as far as I can tell.
I suggest you wait till the end of the year. AVID have a proven track record of hopelessness so they wont reach their own deadline. On January the first 2016, surely they will be undeniably in breach. They look to be in breach right now, but they will certainly be in breach in 2016.
Don't worry about detractors on this site. Ignore them. They are unable to see that if you win a legal battle against AVID they will also benefit.

Get some legal advice and go for it.

[ShiftStudios]

Originally Posted by lachlan

Hi ShiftStudios,

I read the link you supplied about "Valve"
AVID are breaching Australian Federal law in the same way as far as I can tell.
I suggest you wait till the end of the year. AVID have a proven track record of hopelessness so they wont reach their own deadline. On January the first 2016, surely they will be undeniably in breach. They look to be in breach right now, but they will certainly be in breach in 2016.
Don't worry about detractors on this site. Ignore them. They are unable to see that if you win a legal battle against AVID they will also benefit.

Get some legal advice and go for it.

It's even iffy for them on this grounds:

https://www.accc.gov.au/business/tre...ts-obligations

As they implied that Cloud Collab and track freeze were coming in 12 at NAMM and online. They even did videos!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPqdNygQB38

"Featuring Pro Tools 12, with new flexible licensing, AVID Cloud Collaboration, and the AVID Marketplace." need I go on? It couldn't be more black and white than that. If I told the ACCC I bought the product off the back of that video (which would be completely reasonable as it's a marketing video by AVID) only to find out it wasn't in 12, I'd be well within my rights for a refund and AVID would be getting a "Please Explain" from the ACCC.

All you people can sit here and say "They've said coming soon..." Yes NOW they say that, but in this video, which is a marketing video for Pro Tools 12, in the first 20 seconds, there is a blatant lie...

Also, I have made sure to download that video, in case AVID decides to remove it, as they seem to do whenever someone points out a flaw in their advertising. The metadata is intact, so there is nowhere to hide. I think it's time for some answers from AVID...

[Emcha_audio]

Originally Posted by ShiftStudios

For the record this page right here, as stored from a snapshot of the site by the waybackmachine is legally binding enough. My perception was that Pro Tools 12 would have cloud collaboration, and it still doesnt...

http://web.archive.org/web/201503191...tools-software

According to Australian law, my perception is what's important, not their "intention". If a reasonable person would have assumed that Cloud collaboration was a part of 12 when it was released, which i'm sure you'll find most would, and that is not delivered, then by our lawful definition, they have breached their sales contract and not only am I entitled to a full refund, but there's a very real chance AVID will get hit with a "false and misleading" advertising fine, and those are very large.

Or this page when it was released and it still has "Cloud Collaboration" on it.

http://web.archive.org/web/201503251...Tools-Software

Though "Get Credit, Get Paid" has "coming soon". Strange how that would but Cloud Collab doesn't... unless of course they were trying to be intentionally misleading...

"And now Pro Tools 12 sets the stage for Avid Cloud Collaboration, the upcoming Avid Marketplace, and flexible options"

if you check for the meaning of this, synonym and what ever else, it means that pro tools 12 prepares for

Idiom definition: If you create the conditions for something to happen or take place, you set the stage for it.

This means that Pro tools 12 was the stepping stone to get cloud collaboration and the other things, it doesn't mean that it would come with it. There's still time for Avid to keep it's promise of having freeze track and cloud collaboration by december 31 23:59:59 2015. A 143 days to be exact.

[ShiftStudios]

Originally Posted by Emcha_audio

"And now Pro Tools 12 sets the stage for Avid Cloud Collaboration, the upcoming Avid Marketplace, and flexible options"

if you check for the meaning of this, synonym and what ever else, it means that pro tools 12 prepares for

Idiom definition: If you create the conditions for something to happen or take place, you set the stage for it.

This means that Pro tools 12 was the stepping stone to get cloud collaboration and the other things, it doesn't mean that it would come with it. There's still time for Avid to keep it's promise of having freeze track and cloud collaboration by december 31 23:59:59 2015. A 143 days to be exact.

Negative, watch the video mate. First 20 seconds, it says "Introducing Pro Tools 12. Featuring new flexible licensing, AVID Cloud Collaboration, and the AVID Marketplace." Right there, in the video... did you even watch it??

Enough defending this company, it's time for answers. If you're not here to help get answers, then go find another thread to pick fights in.

Legally speaking, if this advertisement is no longer relevant, then it shouldn't still be available...

[Emcha_audio]

Originally Posted by ShiftStudios

Negative, watch the video mate. First 20 seconds, it says "Introducing Pro Tools 12. Featuring new flexible licensing, AVID Cloud Collaboration, and the AVID Marketplace." Right there, in the video... did you even watch it??

Enough defending this company, it's time for answers. If you're not here to help get answers, then go find another thread to pick fights in.

Legally speaking, if this advertisement is no longer relevant, then it shouldn't still be available...

I'm not trying to pick a fight, I'm exposing an other side of the discussion. This is an open forum where all side of discussions can be shared unless that format has changed in the last 24 hours? I understand that you feel you've been deceived, but before starting on a long and costly road, you might want to actually analyze very carefully every nuances in the wording that you can be sure the legal department of Avid with their lawyers have made sure to cover themselves.

Again, in the video, the only mention is Featuring, no promises on when it would be available were made in the video. As of yet, the "flexible" licensing is available, the market place is in pro tools although there's still addition to be made to it as I understand it. So there's cloud collaboration to add which they still have 143 days to get on the move on. And yet on the same page of that video there's "And now Pro Tools 12 sets the stage for Avid Cloud Collaboration, the upcoming Avid Marketplace, and flexible options," Legally, what's written supersedes anything else, just like the small prints on the tv adds that you can barely see.

[Amack]

ShiftStudios,

Welcome back! The DUC/AVID really needs people like you that are willing to speak up. Since this is your thread, please let me know if this post is OT so I can remove to avoid getting another "infraction/vacation"! Thanks!

Amack

Originally Posted by ShiftStudios

Negative, watch the video mate. First 20 seconds, it says "Introducing Pro Tools 12. Featuring new flexible licensing, AVID Cloud Collaboration, and the AVID Marketplace." Right there, in the video... did you even watch it??

Enough defending this company, it's time for answers. If you're not here to help get answers, then go find another thread to pick fights in.

Legally speaking, if this advertisement is no longer relevant, then it shouldn't still be available...

[nige108]

I'm not sure why anyone would want to defend a company that is about as transparent as concrete. Any company that is not clear and precise with their customers is up to no good in my eyes.