Should I mix with a sub-woofer?

[ratz]

Hello,

Looking for advice and to learn what others are doing in their studios. I have a home project studio, using Event 20/20bas monitors and was wondering if including a sub-woofer in the configuration and was the correct thing to do.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance

[beggehorn]

sorry to jump in on your tail, ratz, but I've got the same question. I'm using NS10's and find it hard to judge the bottom of my mixes. The response graph of the NS10's show a significant rolloff @ 100Hz and I was wondering if a sub would be an appropriate option to buying monitors with a lower range. Any suggestions on a particular sub? (cheap?) I'm sure someone out there has had the same issues. . .

[pyro]

hey ratz. great topic. I also have event 20/20 and have the same problem. one thing that helps a some is make sure on the back that your Lf is all the way up but we are still missing a bunch of bottom end. would also like to hear from someone that has same speakers and have tryed the subs. Mixes are very hard to judge with this set-up aand I feel like if I had differant moniters that i would have to start all over again learning them. anyone with sub pease help

[smack]

I don´t think there is a yes or no on this subjekt. I´ve got a sub just to get the feel of what its like down there. The question if you should mix with a sub or not depends on you, I find it hard to set the levels with a sub because I´m use to mix in nearfield´s but friends of mine love it. Right or wrong ?
Don´t know is there one?

Mats

[Kris]

I have the same prob with the Event 20/20's. Everyone asks for more bass, more kick, when on any other system it's gonna be too much. I was thinking it was time to get something better, but haven't considered adding a sub??? looking for advice as well!

I own Event 20/20 bas monitors also, and have used a sub for some time now. I was doing a hip hop project a few months back, and picked one up to give me more bottom. Needless to say the client was much happier hearing that big bottom (no Spinal Tap jokes, please).

I am pleased now, but it took some time to dial in the right volume and crossover points for the sub to get mixes that translate well on other systems. I'm sure you guys have all tried your mixes on many diferent systems and listened to all kinds of program material to learn your speakers.
Well, there will be a similar, if not as long learning curve to get used to your "new" set-up if you do go with a sub. BTW, remember to feed your sub both channels of your program material, not just one side - it does make a difference.
Good Luck!

[delphypop]

When you're dealing with nearfeild only monitoring I think it's important to just be familiar with your monitors. What should a mix sound like on them? ie if you play the latest U2 album and you don't hear lots of 30htz then chances are if your mix has lots of 30 in it, it's too much.
I've worked in a couple of studios with some big monitors and they're really good for checking that bottom end, but you still have to reference it to other stuff. After a few hours your perception of what is good bottom end and what is too much tends to drift.

A sub is a good idea, only if it's a good sub well matched with your system.
The boys in the PA shop recently rigged up 2 double 15 sub bins into the company van, just cos they could, and it sounded like s h i t. plenty of bottom, not at all accurate, not at all a unified sound, andthat is the possible problem with subwoofers sometimes, they don't sound like part of the same sound

I find it important to 'trick' myself into accurate monitoring, ie not necessarily a flat line with pink noise but a sound that makes me think that sounds good off a few CDs I know should sound good.
That might be a little bassier than normal for me, but it means my mixes don't end up too bottom heavy compared to other CDs.

We've got Genelec 1031A monitors and they have very good bottom end for a near feild, nice top end, and great mids. hell they're probably the best monitor I've used.
I've tried the events and thought they were way too bright, which will result in dull mixes from my ears.
Room size and shape is critical too, and orientation of you set up.
We had the control room facing one way, and there was no bass, set it up facing the other way and great bass.
Standing waves and all that can suck the subs andbass right out of your speaker cone, and are fixable with bass traps etc. Lots you can do,if you know your monitors are producing good bottom end but you can't hear it.

Monitoring it seems is pretty subjective.
Got to find the sound that makes other CDs sound right to your ears, then you've got a good starting point for your mixes.


[This message has been edited by delphypop (edited 10-11-99).]

[This message has been edited by delphypop (edited 10-11-99).]

When I spotted a sub unit(1094) for my Genelec 1031A's at my second hand dealers I got excited. When I asked what the unit was like, and the repair guys laughed and said all the stuff started to fall off thier shelves when they tested it out, they had a sale!
It takes a while to get used to. Do that by playing CD's you know and your own past work. keep tweaking, moving...till you are happy.
Get the most features for tweaking that you can. It is a PITA to crawl around on the floor and tweak, get a friend to "go down" for you!
So you can judge from your normal sitting position.
Subs, I immagine are a must for "Jeep rumbling" R&B and Dance music but optional for Rock n Roll.

Jules

[ratz]

Thanks for all the feedback. I have been struggling with the lows, in that my mix sounds right on while in the studio, but it is not translating well when I bounce/burn a CD to demo it in my car. The lows are creating an ugly rumble in my car system. I have pretty much assumed all along that it is simply due to errors I am making in the mix, but since I have been having continued problems resolving it, I thought that perhaps a sub could "assist" me.

Thanks again

[essay]

A sub can make a huge difference with your NS10's!! I recently produced a few projects that were mixed by someone else using NS-10's and a sub. I always liked NS10,s, but missed the bottom end. After hearing them with a sub, I was blown away. Yamaha actually makes a few sub models that you can find at Best Buy or other home audio stores. I know it sounds bad, but they're great. Relatively inexpensive too. Like one of the other replies stated, make sure you play some familiar CD's through them to set volume and crossover level. Heres another trick...Once you have set the levels, make sure you put a piece of tape over the knobs so they don't get inadvertently moved during a session. You could really screw your mixes up!