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  #1  
Old 08-20-2012, 08:27 PM
sharchik sharchik is offline
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Exclamation Separate Headphone Mix for Drummer using Eleven Rack and PT9HD

I really need some help understanding my options and who ever explains this to me needs to put it in as simple terms as possible cause I'm literally retarded when it comes to understanding DAW I/O.

Ok, so my goal is to use Eleven Rack as an interface for live performance by sending a mix containing Pre-recorded audio through the "Main Output" XLR's to a PA system, the "Outputs to Amps" to my onstage amps, and a headphone output of some sort to our drummer that is different from the "Main Output" mix. This mix will contain a click track, but what it plays is not important I just need to figure out how to do it.

My question is what are my options for creating a separate headphone mix for my drummer and will the Eleven Rack be able to do what I'm asking? If not what set up should I be running, what interface should I buy to do this, and are there affordable options out there?

Thank you guys I really need your help!
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  #2  
Old 08-20-2012, 10:05 PM
alags alags is offline
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Are you going to be playing guitar through the rack also or just using it for playback?

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  #3  
Old 08-21-2012, 02:39 AM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharchik View Post
I really need some help understanding my options and who ever explains this to me needs to put it in as simple terms as possible cause I'm literally retarded when it comes to understanding DAW I/O.

Ok, so my goal is to use Eleven Rack as an interface for live performance by sending a mix containing Pre-recorded audio through the "Main Output" XLR's to a PA system, the "Outputs to Amps" to my onstage amps, and a headphone output of some sort to our drummer that is different from the "Main Output" mix. This mix will contain a click track, but what it plays is not important I just need to figure out how to do it.

My question is what are my options for creating a separate headphone mix for my drummer and will the Eleven Rack be able to do what I'm asking? If not what set up should I be running, what interface should I buy to do this, and are there affordable options out there?

Thank you guys I really need your help!
You can do this with an Eleven rack, but only just barely, and not with the standard headphone output--that is fed from the main out signal not a separate Pro Tools IO output. But You could use the Eleven Rack digital output and feed that as a separate digital out from Pro Tools -- your drummer would need a DAC/headphone amplifier (but that is nice since it controls his own headphone volume level) that you can drive with S/PDIF or AES/EBU digital output from the eleven rack. But be careful--does the drummer need a whole band live mix to in the headphone as well (ESP. For in-ear monitors with high sound isolation?) or is he relying on hearing the live sound through open headphones? Does he want to control that mix himself?

If you don't want to go that digital out to headphone route then you need a separate audio interface with more IO capability than the Eleven Rack. And I suspect you also need more IO capability anyhow to make things easy for FOH sound guy by feeding the Eleven Rack main output and the separate Pro Tools interface output to the FOH mixer entirely separately (I prefer this, unless your FOH guy is going to drive Pro Tools for you?). You really want the FOH guy to be able to control the guitar and backing track levels and he may not be wild about trying to do this from within Pro Tools.

If you want to go this route what interface for Pro Tools to recommend for this type of use depends on lots of things, your budget, what exact Pro Tools computer you have, what other recording or other uses you want to use it for, whether the backing track will be a prerecorded audio track or wether you want to generate that from virtual instruments etc. (that affects more the computer you may need), or be playing any outboard midi instruments from Pro Tools . You need to provide more info here.

If you did not need a main backing music to FOH then the drummers system could be entirely stand alone, including a click track (recorded originally in Pro Tools if you want) playing back over anything to the drummer, including an iPod, etc.

How a whole live performance with multiple songs will be handled from within Pro Tools while you are playing live is something to carefully think of. Who will drive all this? (a band member? The FOH sound guy?). You might end up with say a four track

There is a lot to learn here and lots of chance for confusion, my advice is to start messing around now with whatever you can, especially just using the Eleven rack, as simple as possible (start with no backing or click tracks) so you can get your Eleven rack going to the PA and stage monitors/amps (what on stage amp models are these exactly? exactly what these are and what you are trying to achieve with these may be an issue). E.g. If you are using guitar amps on stage you may be better off drive the FX loop return on those amps with the main out not the amp 1/2 out -- but that is conflicting using those outputs for the FOH (so you may want to loop that back from a mixer panel). There is enough to learn about all the Eleven Rack stuff and things like cab sim setting inflexibility silliness when mixing amp 1/2 and FOH amps. The way you really learn this is playing around with it.

How much experience do you have with Pro Tools and do you have a well set up Pro Tools computer that trust to run reliably in a live stage situation? You may be in for a steep learning curve, don't just assume this will work on any old computer, you must set this up according to the Pro Tools systems optimizations guides for you particular computer OS.

What type of music does the band play? What instruments are on the backing track? This is stereo? The band musicians are playing what instruments live? What does the FOH sound system look like? What model mixer panel (is it used today to drive aux/headphone outputs for click tracks etc?) What type of amp and effects are you looking to simulate with the Eleven Rack? What about bass etc. (is there another Eleven Rack for bass? Driving what stage amps?).

If you were hoping to also record the band speak up now because that is another huge kettle of fish, with possibly much more equipment required.

Darryl
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  #4  
Old 08-21-2012, 10:21 AM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is online now
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I just noticed the "9HD" I'm the title. Do you want to use a HD rig live? What HD interface etc. do you have?

Darryl
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  #5  
Old 08-21-2012, 02:50 PM
sharchik sharchik is offline
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Question Re: Separate Headphone Mix for Drummer using Eleven Rack and PT9HD

Alright. I want to run a Pro Tools session live on my Macbook (10.6.8 Snow Leopard) and I have no HD interface just PT HD9 on my computer. I can't afford an HD interface and I don't really need one right now.

I've decided that I don't want to run everything through the eleven rack.
What I'd like to do is use a Behringer Mixer (Looking at XENYX 1204 or X1222USB) I have a connection with Behringer and can get their gear discounted and it looks like good stuff, the higher end models anyway.
With these I can't tell if they can run two different outputs that PT can recognize. If you can tell let me know.

Ideally this mixer would sit next to our drummer and he would have headphones for a mix of click and samples and then the main outs would send samples to the PA without click. (All prerecorded sound no MIDI or virtual instruments at all.) My 11R would be attached to the computer as well via USB MIDI (A long cable so i wont be right next to my drummer haha) It wouldn't be sending audio at all it would just be for MIDI programmed patch changes that PT will also operate in time with the click track.

I'd also like to see if with the USB mixer if its possible to send a mic into PT on its own track using one of the 4 mic inputs for our vocalist so that I can bus some automated effects like delay reverb and distortion in PT and send it back out in the main mix. These mixers have on board effects but they cant be changed mid show unless my drummer physically turns knobs and he'll be busy playing so they'll be good for just a little overall reverb or delay but nothing automated.

So here is my signal path as best as I can explain and let me know if this works.
,-> ProTools
Guitar --> 11R
`-> Guitar Amps

Vocals --> USB Mixer --> ProTools --> USB Mixer --> PA

,-> PA (Samples)
Samples & Click (ProTools) --> USB Mixer
`-> Drummer Headphones (Click)

Does this make sense like it would work?
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  #6  
Old 08-21-2012, 02:52 PM
sharchik sharchik is offline
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Default Re: Separate Headphone Mix for Drummer using Eleven Rack and PT9HD

So here is my signal path as best as I can explain and let me know if this works.
___________,-> ProTools
Guitar --> 11R
___________`-> Guitar Amps

Vocals --> USB Mixer --> ProTools --> USB Mixer --> PA

____________________________________,-> PA (Samples)
Samples & Click (ProTools) --> USB Mixer
____________________________________`-> Drummer Headphones (Click)
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  #7  
Old 08-21-2012, 05:11 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is online now
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Again, what type of music, what amp and FX are you looking at simulating with the ER and what on-stage Guitar amps will you use?

You gave how many on-stage amps? More than one? For stereo or other purposes?

Does the vocalist get a monitor on-stage? What monitor/amp do they have?

I think you may be in for a surprise with the high latency involved with some delay and reverb plugins in Pro Tools.

Is your Mac setup properly for pro tools? Seperate disk drive for audio files etc. and fully optimized (wifi, BT off, spotlight disabled, etc. etc.). I personally would be cautious about relying on Pro Tools and a laptop and external drive etc in a live situation and if I had to it would be very well set up, over configured, bolted down solidly, etc.

I will get back with comments on the mixers later. Is there a seperate facility/FOH mixer expecting to see your individual instruments or are they going to be OK if the band just feeds them a stereo mix?

Darryl
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  #8  
Old 08-21-2012, 06:35 PM
sharchik sharchik is offline
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Default Re: Separate Headphone Mix for Drummer using Eleven Rack and PT9HD

Sorry thought I answered everything. I originally typed up something more informative but then the forum logged me out and i lost it...

Progressive metal. The vocalist would need a monitor on stage we can't afford in ears and there doesn't look theres an output for a single channel to run a cable to so yeah the vocal effects are probably a no. Unless we just give him like a delay or reverb pedal to throw on the mic before it reaches a DI box or w/e.

Amp sims dont matter cause nothing guitar related is running through the Mixer (Heavy distortions, chorus cleans, slight distortions, etc... if you must know)

The amps on stage could run in stereo because 11R has two amp outputs L & R. Plus the main outs of 11R could send to the board, a bass amp out could go to the board, and the Drums can be miced as well and go to the FOH not through our dinky little mixer. I just want to know about the mixer's ability to send 2 different mixes for samples and click. Cause the mixer would have to run to the front of the house as well through a DI to go to their PA system since we dont have our own just gona use the venues.
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  #9  
Old 08-21-2012, 06:37 PM
sharchik sharchik is offline
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Default Re: Separate Headphone Mix for Drummer using Eleven Rack and PT9HD

Oh and the onstage amps are 2 Tech 21 Power engine cabs. Uncolored tone aside from a 3 band EQ and master volume.
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  #10  
Old 08-21-2012, 06:57 PM
alags alags is offline
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My personal opinion is you're trying to run too much with just the 11 rack

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