Protools for Composing/delivering files for scoring projects

[reichman]

Since then though, the versions have changed, and its subscription based, so not sure which level version I can 'get away with' now that is compatible, for simple session delivery when the time comes?

Video and timecode are in standard Pro Tools. For you, the biggest difference will be stereo vs. surround. You need Ultimate for surround.

[buckman]

Would there be another DAW out there that can create OMF files?

Possibly Reaper?

This way at least I guess you could create stereo cues and on import into PT the files would snap and spot to the correct frame position automatically?

[smurfyou]

Originally Posted by buckman

Would there be another DAW out there that can create OMF files?

Possibly Reaper?

This way at least I guess you could create stereo cues and on import into PT the files would snap and spot to the correct frame position automatically?

Most other DAW's can't reliably create a PT friendly OMF / AAF. Not saying it can't be done because I do it all the time but most of them are iffy and you don't want to send out material that may or may not be a huge headache. Reaper does not natively support it. Neither does Live. Logic and DP have been terrible in my experience but maybe newer versions are better. Studio One claims to have good import and export but I haven't tried it. Audition is one that actually seems to work pretty well but Audition is terrible for everything else and I don't know anyone that actually uses it.

It would be worthwhile to rent PT for the month especially if you're only working in stereo for now. You don't have to learn much, it literally just needs the cues checkerboarded as described earlier. Everyone has their own templates so it will be imported into the mixer's project. It saves time and mouse clicks versus timestamped WAV files.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by smurfyou

It would be worthwhile to rent PT for the month especially if you're only working in stereo for now. You don't have to learn much, it literally just needs the cues checkerboarded as described earlier. Everyone has their own templates so it will be imported into the mixer's project. It saves time and mouse clicks versus timestamped WAV files.

Agree here, and yes if PT is needed it would be worth it vs timestamped WAV files that potentially not work and be in the wrong place.

Can you 'rent' PT just for the month then?

As mentioned my last PT version what something like v8.0! so not sure on the versions and how exactly the subs model works?
Surely Avid won't let you rent for a month (when you need PT) then stop subscription after a project is completed, then purchase again for the month when its needed at the end of another project to just checkerboard cues and deliver a session?

or maybe they do?

[reichman]

Can you 'rent' PT just for the month then?

Yes you can. That's one of the under-appreciated benefits of the subscription model.

[Cheesehead]

In my experience as a Mixer I'd say for lower budget and Indie films all music is delivered as stereo mixes by the Composer.
There's usually not the time or money to get in to making stems and re-mixing music on the stage. Unless the Director particularly wants that flexibility and then it can be done on a cue by cue basis.
There's also the whole issue that re-mixing from stems doesn't include the overall mix bus processing that was used when mastering the stereo music, which can have a big effect on the sound of the cue.

So imho it doesn't matter what DAW the music is made with and there's no need for the Composer to have Pro Tools at all, many don't.
What I would love to see though, going a bit off topic, is more Composers delivering mixes in 5.1.

[smurfyou]

Originally Posted by Cheesehead

In my experience as a Mixer I'd say for lower budget and Indie films all music is delivered as stereo mixes by the Composer.
There's usually not the time or money to get in to making stems and re-mixing music on the stage. Unless the Director particularly wants that flexibility and then it can be done on a cue by cue basis.
There's also the whole issue that re-mixing from stems doesn't include the overall mix bus processing that was used when mastering the stereo music, which can have a big effect on the sound of the cue.

So imho it doesn't matter what DAW the music is made with and there's no need for the Composer to have Pro Tools at all, many don't.
What I would love to see though, going a bit off topic, is more Composers delivering mixes in 5.1.

Agreed, on the low end it's 90% stereo mixes. When I get stems they stay hidden and inactive unless needed. For the reasons you state.

I don't know about more Composers delivering 5.1 though. Working with a low budget they won't be able to book a decent 5.1 studio with an experienced mixer. No telling what you'll end up with. Or they'd just run their stems through an upmixer, which I'd rather do myself given the choice.

[Cheesehead]

I don't know about more Composers delivering 5.1 though. Working with a low budget they won't be able to book a decent 5.1 studio with an experienced mixer. No telling what you'll end up with. Or they'd just run their stems through an upmixer, which I'd rather do myself given the choice.

I guess you're right there.

It does always seem like an opportunity missed though. You could do fantastic stuff with creative 5.1 music mixing and upmixing is always so static.

[BScout]

If you have a music editor (paid for by production or if you are doing well enough that you can pay out of your package) they can take care of dropping and spotting music into Pro Tools sessions. Don’t worry about it. Just communicate with them.

Plenty of DAWs can do AAFs (please no OMFs!) The problem with DAW AAF exports come when you move beyond flat file delivery (into fades, edits, panning, automation, etc.). As you are delivering music to a dub stage, you should be delivering flat. At worse you have an optional muted stem (and then send lots of notes along with delivery about what that’s about.) Both Logic and Cubase/Nuendo can do those perfectly fine.
Also dub mixers aren’t music mixers. They have a lot of other things to worry about. They don’t want a “live” mix to deal with. Stems (flattened in every way) of the mix is the most you deliver. (“Stems” are not mix stems. They are large “food groups” to give the re-recording mixer flexibility. So if you have a big low drum/boom that might get in the way of dialogue or SFX, put that on a separate stem so the re-recording mixer can dip it. Alternatively, since composers hear their stuff much louder than it’ll be in the final product, when the music gets lowered, a melody line could get buried so it is helpful to have that on a separate stem so it can be raised when everything else is lowered to put the balance right.) For low budget, it’s not even stems and often just stereo full mix. Email/call your post production supervisor about what is expected. They’ll either already know or check with re-recording. Often on low budget/TV, the re-recording mixer is doing an hour show every 3 days so won’t have time to get back to you. So lean on your post-sup (or they’ll give you email details for re-recording which is better than phone calls.)

Don’t send surround anything unless mixed in surround. A dub engineer can “fake” a surround music mix, if needed, better than you (and keep their re-recording mix delivery compliant.)

And a pet peeve — music is more than FRAME accurate. Sound is a SAMPLE accurate medium. Unless you are extremely diligent about printing down your music cues to frame edges each and every time, just labeling timecode in the file name isn’t good enough for sound. I haven’t met a composer yet that diligent—re-recording mixers tend to be (and they work in grids set to frames more.) To complicate things, due to the history of DAW development, programs like Logic are built on a tick-based engine. Which means picture frame edges don’t always align to ticks exactly. Sample-based engine DAWs can always be perfectly aligned. (Also, Logic uses a different subframe count than ProTools if you thought adding that precision would be your solution.) What does work is embedded timecode that is written into the header of the audio file. That is sample based on any DAW as part of the standard.
But what I’m getting at is: written timecode placement isn’t exact for audio placement; it’s good ballpark.

[BScout]

Originally Posted by Cheesehead

You could do fantastic stuff with creative 5.1 music mixing

Ha! That’s part of the problem. Television/film is first and foremost visual storytelling. Inexperienced 5.1/surround music mixers can get too creative! (and then the experienced re-recording mixer will have to undo that or, more likely, down mix back to stereo)

It’s the audio equivalent of someone learning about all the different fonts on their computer and the next thing you know the grocery shopping list looks like a ransom note.

On top of which, for TV, count how many of the people you know who always (or even 50% of the time) watch in surround. I keep getting updates from Netflix on their percentage of “mobile” viewers. It’s depressing if you enjoy working in surround. At least with theatrical cinema there’s a bit of control on the listening environment.