Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Legacy Products > Pro Tools 12

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-10-2015, 12:14 AM
mmk mmk is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Berkeley
Posts: 133
Default Question about Pro Tools 11 HD (And Not Upgrading to pt12 until later)

Lets pretend I'm someone who doesn't get out much or read the internet to find out about this new Avid policy on pro tools.

Lets say I never find about about the support plan or updates or any of that and just keep working happily on my PTHD Native rig for a few years. Because it works so well and I dont feel a need to upgrade or check for an upgrade.

Then a new operating system version comes out and has a few features I would want to use, and the version of Pro tools 11 that I had is no longer compatible. What would be my choices? Would I be able to simply purchase a pro tools HD upgrade like in the past or has that gone away? In the past you could buy a regular upgrade from HD 9 to HD 11 and things like that. Will that still be possible? Without support plans and stuff like that?

I read if you dont purchase some kind of upgrade by December 31 2015 you will never be able to get another update again? Is this information correct? So what would I do with my HD Native system if i needed to update it after. I dont feel like in the next year I am going to update it. It's actually really good right now and it will be for a few years I think. So lets say in a few years I decide to upgrade my Mac OSX version and PT 11 is no longer supported. What would I do then? Just buy another HD License on Ebay for full price? or will I even be able to do that?

From what I hear if I do not upgrade by december 31 2015 im basically stuck at 11 with my hardware forever. That seems unfair for a customer that spent 4 thousand to upgrade from a Digi 003. I spent a lot of money and it was a burden for me to spend it. I don't regret it as the software and hardware is great, but I have no other money at this time and I spent the money so it would last me. So what is going on? Please let me know before I assume anything.

I dont know what to think about these upgrades from the FAQ to all the people complaining. Does anyone have any information on things like this?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-10-2015, 04:29 AM
Craig F Craig F is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 12,591
Default Re: Question about Pro Tools 11 HD (And Not Upgrading to pt12 until later)

It will not be as it was but the details on HD are not finalized.
Please ignore the doom and loom set that will be descending on this thread like locus.

So stay, alert to announcements. Don't hide under a rock.
__________________
...

"Fly High Freeee click psst tic tic tic click Bird Yeah!" - dave911

PT11 System Requirements link http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/C...m-Requirements


Thank you,

Craig
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-10-2015, 06:24 AM
mmk mmk is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Berkeley
Posts: 133
Default Re: Question about Pro Tools 11 HD (And Not Upgrading to pt12 until later)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig F View Post
It will not be as it was but the details on HD are not finalized.
Please ignore the doom and loom set that will be descending on this thread like locus.

So stay, alert to announcements. Don't hide under a rock.
ok thanks. thanks for the information and response I'll just keep an eye open. I'm glad the details on HD are not final as I really hope they dont take away the option to upgrade hd outright without some sort of support plan or paying extra money. All i need is to be able to upgrade when I feel at my own will for a fair price. I hope they consider that
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-10-2015, 07:42 AM
Eric Lambert's Avatar
Eric Lambert Eric Lambert is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,778
Default Re: Question about Pro Tools 11 HD (And Not Upgrading to pt12 until later)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmk View Post
I'm glad the details on HD are not final as I really hope they dont take away the option to upgrade hd outright without some sort of support plan or paying extra money. All i need is to be able to upgrade when I feel at my own will for a fair price. I hope they consider that
Indeed. They didn't expect such a backlash when introducing this new program and there might be some changes. Let's hope so.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-10-2015, 09:32 AM
Park Seward's Avatar
Park Seward Park Seward is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Grants Pass, OR
Posts: 4,284
Default Re: Question about Pro Tools 11 HD (And Not Upgrading to pt12 until later)

I found this on the Avid web site:

"The Avid Support Reinstatement Fee is a charge that is assessed to any customer who chooses to re-activate a lapsed Avid Support contract or who chooses to activate an Avid Support contract after the standard warranty period for their product has expired. The fee is added to the cost of the Avid Support Contract. Customers that re-activate their support contracts after allowing them to expire enjoy the same benefits of the most up-to-date technology as those customers who consistently maintain their coverage. The reinstatement fee ensures that all customers share equally in the cost of continual improvements to their Avid solutions."

"The fee is 25% of the total cost of the Avid ExpertPlus Support contract (or the Standard Support cost for Software Only systems) for the Avid system being covered. In some cases, it may be more cost effective for customers to back-date the new Avid Support Contract to cover the time that has elapsed since the expiration of the original contract. This option is usually preferable for systems that have been without active Avid Support Coverage for less than 90 days. An Avid reseller can help you determine which choice makes sense for you."

http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/e...Paper/en279501

This is not referring to the current issue dealing with PT11 but rather other support contracts going back to 2008. The page was last updated in 2012. It may be of help understanding Avid's past dealings with support contracts, but it may not be an indicator of future policies. It appears to apply to the Media Composer product.
__________________
Park
The Transfer Lab at Video Park
Analog tape to Pro Tools transfers, 1/4"-2"
http://www.videopark.com
MacPro 6 core 3.33 GHz, OS 10.12.1, 8 GB RAM, PT12.6.1, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, PreSonus DigiMax, MC Control V3.5, dual displays,
Neumann U-47, Tab V76 mic pre, RCA 44BX and 77DX, MacBook Pro 9,1, 2.3 Mhz, i7, CBS Labs Audimax and Volumax.
Ampex 440B half-track and four-track, 351 tube full-track mono, MM-1100 16-track.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-10-2015, 05:45 PM
Barry Johns Barry Johns is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 3,567
Default Re: Question about Pro Tools 11 HD (And Not Upgrading to pt12 until later)

That reference is from 2008, I doubt it has any relevance to today.
__________________
HD Native Pcie, PTHD 11, PT12 Vanilla, Omni, Lynx Aurora 16, 192 I/O (16 in/8 out), 24 Fader D-Command, lots of preamps and compressors.

MacPro 5.1 (12) Core (2009 MacPro 8 Core Upgraded to a 12 Core MacPro), 56 Gig Ram, SSD System & 3 - 2TB Drives, OSX 10.9.5, Windows 10 Via Bootcamp
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-10-2015, 11:34 PM
mmk mmk is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Berkeley
Posts: 133
Default Re: Question about Pro Tools 11 HD (And Not Upgrading to pt12 until later)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Lambert View Post
Indeed. They didn't expect such a backlash when introducing this new program and there might be some changes. Let's hope so.
I think there will be because I don't think there are very many in favor of this sales model.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Park Seward View Post
I found this on the Avid web site:

"The Avid Support Reinstatement Fee is a charge that is assessed to any customer who chooses to re-activate a lapsed Avid Support contract or who chooses to activate an Avid Support contract after the standard warranty period for their product has expired. The fee is added to the cost of the Avid Support Contract. Customers that re-activate their support contracts after allowing them to expire enjoy the same benefits of the most up-to-date technology as those customers who consistently maintain their coverage. The reinstatement fee ensures that all customers share equally in the cost of continual improvements to their Avid solutions."

"The fee is 25% of the total cost of the Avid ExpertPlus Support contract (or the Standard Support cost for Software Only systems) for the Avid system being covered. In some cases, it may be more cost effective for customers to back-date the new Avid Support Contract to cover the time that has elapsed since the expiration of the original contract. This option is usually preferable for systems that have been without active Avid Support Coverage for less than 90 days. An Avid reseller can help you determine which choice makes sense for you."

http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/e...Paper/en279501

This is not referring to the current issue dealing with PT11 but rather other support contracts going back to 2008. The page was last updated in 2012. It may be of help understanding Avid's past dealings with support contracts, but it may not be an indicator of future policies. It appears to apply to the Media Composer product.
I could live with this. I just hope they dont make the HD upgrades go away. They are pricey but I could see myself a few versions down the line buying one. Maybe HD 11 to HD 14 for 999 or something that would be Ok if i got my use out of 11. Maybe avid is realizing their software is almost complete, and are running out of ways to re invent / sell it? So they are trying to sell you the updates to keep it running on new systems? I understand everyone has to get paid, and they invested a lot of time and money into rewriting pro tools for 64 bits so they are trying to make that back. Pro tools is its best ever right now. Just dont go ruining it. The money will come, word of mouth will sell it more than anything else. Keep advertising and pushing new features do some partnerships, include it bundled with certain brands of computers, find a new way to make your interface / software available to everyone. do pro tools on mobile phones. theres tons of ways to monetize the name and the software other than this model. as a customer it turns me off and makes me worry. I want to be excited about pro tools again like when Pro tools 11 came out!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Johns View Post
That reference is from 2008, I doubt it has any relevance to today.
I hope things change for the better
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-10-2015, 11:42 PM
mmk mmk is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Berkeley
Posts: 133
Default Re: Question about Pro Tools 11 HD (And Not Upgrading to pt12 until later)

Ok seems like in the FAQ my question has been answered. Didnt see this before!

Q: If my Pro Tools | HD Software upgrade/support plan expires and I want to upgrade later on, what are my options?
A: Pro Tools | HD Software customers will have the option to get on an upgrade/support plan through the end of 2015. Before that period ends we will release new flexible licensing options for Pro Tools | HD Software.

Lets just hope this means that the regular HD update price / option is not going away! Thats all I ask as a customer. I Love the pro tools software I'ts the best. I'm not biased, I have tried every DAW pretty much, nothing can compare to pro tools. This is the reason I will pay top dollar for it. I do think the HD options are pricey but you get what you pay for. Lets just hope that stays the same!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-11-2015, 06:03 AM
Bill Denton Bill Denton is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Posts: 2,644
Default Re: Question about Pro Tools 11 HD (And Not Upgrading to pt12 until later)

Again, note that the contents of this post are totally my own conclusions and opinions, based on my own research. My only relationship with Avid is that of a customer.

For the upteenth time, this is all related to Avid's accounting issues. The issues have negatively impacted Avid's financial statements retroactively for several years. Finding and "fixing" these accounting issues has cost Avid a great deal of money. Changing their accounting system to avoid these issues going forward has cost a lot of money.

The licensing models that Avid is describing are the way things are going to be. Avid is a US corporation...as such, they are bound by Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) regulations, which means they are bound by US Generally Accepted Accounting Principles (GAAP). Even if Avid wanted to go back to the old licensing model, under US laws, they cannot go back!

No matter how much people p*ss and moan, Avid cannot go back! No matter how much people hold out hopes of unicorns farting rainbows, Avid cannot go back!

Unfortunately, the document Park Seward located is totally irrelevant to the licensing model Avid will be using going forward. That document relates to the old "service plans" often referenced by Bob Olhsson. These were plans primarily offered to Avid's larger customers, for whom a day's downtime might translate into the loss of hundreds of thousands of dollars US. The "service plans" currently being offered by Avid are related to the previously mentioned accounting issues, and are a totally different animal from those described in the document found by Mr. Seward.

Also, unfortunately...mmk despite your expressed wish of "Lets just hope this means that the regular HD update price / option is not going away!", it has, in fact, already gone away, and will not be coming back. Going forward, the only way you will be able to obtain anything other than bug fixes will be via: a "service plan". And while details have not yet been released regarding HD software, for non-HD licensees it will not be like the Waves WUP. Should you let your Avid "service plan" expire, with a new purchase of a "service plan" and Pro Tools license, currently priced at $899 US.

And that's just the way it is...
__________________
X
Note that all opinions, observations, whatever, in this post are mine, unless I'm being mean or am wrong, in which case it's somebody else's fault. I do not work for Avid (their loss)...my only relationship with Avid is that of a customer (when I'm not too poor to buy stuff, like now)...and that hot administrative assistant...that's more of a "thing" than a "relationship" (that should keep them guessing for a while...)

Just rockin'...what more is there?

Bill in Pittsburgh
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-11-2015, 08:53 AM
paul007 paul007 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 63
Default Re: Question about Pro Tools 11 HD (And Not Upgrading to pt12 until later)

All loud & clear Bill,

But as a consumer; are you really interested in the accounting issues of your insurance company? Your mortgage supplier? Your car center?

I'm not.

I just want to receive good service for what I pay, and I don't want them to change the game single-sided for their accounting issues.

May be there is no turning back for Avid, but clearly there is no general and easy acceptance by users of this new policy either.

Is presence on Nasdaq the best and only way for a company in this market?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pro Tools FAQ is now updated for PT12, etc. nst7 Pro Tools 11 120 01-25-2015 01:08 PM
Pro Tools upgrading question mike1234 macOS 4 06-10-2011 08:19 AM
i have a Question about Upgrading Pro Tools wolfman_rob Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 6 01-14-2010 08:01 AM
upgrading pro tools question! please answer! raphaelrjr Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 1 10-26-2006 06:55 AM
upgrading pro tools question! please answer! raphaelrjr Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 0 10-26-2006 06:21 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:46 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com