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  #1  
Old 10-01-2005, 07:55 PM
Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 is offline
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Default Some Drum Mic\'ing Questions...

Hey all.

I was just wondering how you guys would go about mic'ing the snare if the song in question contained rim shots in the verses and normal snare hits for the chorus. I had this situation not long ago and found the rim shots came out low in volume and quite dull since my snare mic was in the traditional position (opposite where the drummer was striking the rim). Would you place two mics on the snare, one for the rim and one for the normal hit? Or still use one mic but in a different position?

also

how often you guys mic toms in pairs? in what circumstances would you do this? do you ever mic floor toms in pairs or only racks?

oh and wihle im at it, what is the prefered overhead technique around here? my favourite is XY but i know AB is pretty popular too.

thanks a bunch.
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  #2  
Old 10-02-2005, 01:58 AM
worldsend worldsend is offline
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Default Re: Some Drum Mic\'ing Questions...

I never had that problems with rimshots and 'regular' drumhits within a song. Most times the rimshots were louder and had more punch, not the opposite. i normally use a MD 421 from the hihat-side or from between the toms and i sometimes use a SM 57 with the MD 421 to give the snare a more special sound.

i never mic toms in pairs. this is just a limitation for editing and mixing in my eyes. i use the small beta 98 d/s so i have no porblems to place them nearly wherever i want. the MD421s too rule, but when recording metal they are often too big to be placed on the toms.

concerning the overheads i use whatever sounds best for the cymbals and drumkit. i don´t care if its AB or XY or all that and as long as there are not phase-problems everythings is alright for me. *g* most times i use something like a torn apart AB setting of the mics with more mics supporting the ride, china and hihat (i cut these in thr way that there is only audio on the trak when the cymbal is played)- XY did not work too well for me so far.

Until soon.
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  #3  
Old 10-02-2005, 06:37 AM
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crizdee crizdee is online now
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Default Re: Some Drum Mic\'ing Questions...

Hi,


A quick suggestion... i seperate the audio region where the rim plays and have this on a seperate track for different level and processing etc.


Chris
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Old 10-02-2005, 08:39 AM
Jon_Atkinson Jon_Atkinson is offline
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Default Re: Some Drum Mic\'ing Questions...

Quote:
A quick suggestion... i seperate the audio region where the rim plays and have this on a seperate track for different level and processing etc.

Definitely!
The 'old school' method (running back off tape) was to route the snare track to two separate channels, and automate mutes between the rim and snare, with the channels set up differently with the required level and eq. In PT this is much easier, just separating the track to two tracks as Chris suggests. By it's nature the rim sound is usually a lot quieter than the regular snare hit, so separate
By the way..... 'rimshot' is different from 'cross-stick'...... A rimshot is striking the head of the drum and clipping the rim at the same time, giving a meatier or sometimes ringier backbeat snare sound. A cross-stick is also called a rim-click, and is played lying the stick across the head and striking the rim only. Thanks to Yamaha for the confusion- they incorrectly named these sounds on their early drum-machines and the confusion has lasted ever since!

My personal preference on overhead micing at the moment is the Glynn Johns method..... Super cool!!
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Old 10-02-2005, 02:06 PM
Mount Royal Mount Royal is offline
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Default Re: Some Drum Mic\'ing Questions...

Quote:
...My personal preference on overhead micing at the moment is the Glynn Johns method..... Super cool!!
Neat. Is there a reference on this method you know of?

I'm interested in that I'm not totally satisified with my results.

John Caldwell
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Old 10-02-2005, 02:21 PM
rtcstudio rtcstudio is offline
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Default Re: Some Drum Mic\'ing Questions...

Quote:
Quote:
...My personal preference on overhead micing at the moment is the Glynn Johns method..... Super cool!!
Neat. Is there a reference on this method you know of?

I'm interested in that I'm not totally satisified with my results.

John Caldwell
Try this:

http://www.danalexanderaudio.com/glynjohns.htm


And this:

http://www.mercenary.com/3micdrumstuf.html
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Old 10-02-2005, 03:17 PM
Jon_Atkinson Jon_Atkinson is offline
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Default Re: Some Drum Mic\'ing Questions...

Also check these out, for variations on the same theme....



Gearslutz 3 mic technique

Recorderman 3 mic technique
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  #8  
Old 10-02-2005, 07:15 PM
Natural Sound Natural Sound is offline
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Default Re: Some Drum Mic\'ing Questions...

There's a couple more issues to contend with to make things more clear.

RIM SHOTS - What I think you are refering to is what drummers call 'Side Stick' Where the butt of the stick is on the snare head and the stick then strikes the rim creating a TOCK type sound.
I find that the heavier the stick the better the sound and it doesn't matter that the mic is on the hat side and they're striking usually on the right side of the snare.(from the drummers perspective) I know it doesn't look like it would work, but it does. Some things just sound bigger and better when it's further away. But I think a lot of the sound is still coming off the snare head. If you struck the rim without having the butt on the snare, the sound would all but dissapear and sound thn.

NORMAL SNARE - What we call normal is possibly what drummers call Rim Shots. Where the stick hits both the rim and the snare at the same time. In a live performance this creates a louder snare sound. (this makes drummers very happy) In the studio, it can definately get complicated. Because the ATTACK of the sound IS louder, you are forced to lower the input. This sometimes actually creates a thinner drum sound because the head doesn't resonate the same. Then, if they switch to the sdiestick, there can be quite a bit of level difference. Cutting the snare and sidestick to different tracks gives you your best options.

A side stick (with heavier sticks) to a snare hit, where the drummer hits the head squarely in the middle is usually the best for the engineer. It usually comes out exactly like it says in the handbook. (again, it's more what the drummer does than what you do that makes it sound good)

In the late '70's and early '80's the toms were miced from the bottom only. This is usually because we went for a dryer sound and drummers took the bottom heads off. (what were we thinking?)
Everyone double miced toms in the late '80's and '90's because we got that digital reverb and had to crank it up.So the pendulum had swung very far in the opposite direction. Bigger was better and more mics made it bigger.
We've finally come to somewhere in the middle, We learned that more is not necessaraly better (or Bigger)
well, thats what I think anyway.
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  #9  
Old 10-03-2005, 01:56 AM
Jon_Atkinson Jon_Atkinson is offline
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Default Re: Some Drum Mic\'ing Questions...

Bizarre isn't it....?
I was just thinking today about how drum micing has gone full circle...
In an effort to create bigger and bigger drum sounds (particularly in the 80's) more and more mics were used, and triggering of samples to beef up the sound..... (I'm particularly reminded of Tommy Lee's drum sound which allegedly took over thirty channels to create, including mics top, bottom AND inside, and also triggering from each drum.... each cymbal spot miced etc. etc.)
And yet you only have to listen to ten seconds of Led Zep to hear some of the worlds biggest and best drum tracks..... Three mics!!!
Hmmm....
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