Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Legacy Products > Pro Tools 12

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-11-2015, 09:35 AM
lukeyy lukeyy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: ch
Posts: 329
Default moving from PT10 HD3 PCIe to PTHD12 native

hey guys
Iīm in the process of moving up to from a HD3 system to a native HD system and I need a couple of infos from guys who are professionally recording on HD native
I do a lot of big sessions with whole bands, up to 40 analog ins and plugins on the channels

mixing is no problem on a native HD system but recording brings a couple of little issues:

- what Harddrive are you guys using for audio recording? I heard firewire 800 is still much better than USB? what about thunderbolt drives?

- what buffer settings are you recording? is it possible to record at 64 samples with plugins on the tracks?

- what MAC are you using? I have a mac mini intel core i7 which seems to be more than enough for mixing - what about recording?

thx for your help!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-11-2015, 10:26 AM
volodia volodia is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Boulogne-Billancourt,na,France
Posts: 102
Default Re: moving from PT10 HD3 PCIe to PTHD12 native

I'm upgrading to HDX so I can't answer your question but be aware that on HD Native sidechain is NOT delay compensated . It's only on HDX . Something to take into account if you use sidechaining at mix time
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-11-2015, 12:38 PM
VRW VRW is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,318
Default Re: moving from PT10 HD3 PCIe to PTHD12 native

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeyy View Post
- what MAC are you using? I have a mac mini intel core i7 which seems to be more than enough for mixing - what about recording?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeyy View Post
- what Harddrive are you guys using for audio recording?

I had the same (Mac Mini 2012, i7 Quad Core, 2,3GHz, 16GB Ram) for about 3-4 years with PT11 and 12.
I started using it with a 7200rpm Western Digital Black 2,5" for the OS drive and 2 external 7200rpm HDDs
via Firewire 800. This certainly did the job.

Then I replaced the OS drive HHD with a Samsung 840 Pro which was a noticeable improvement as for the
overall performance of the system. Still using the 2 external FW drives.

Finally I decided to replace the OS drive 840 Pro (which was only 128GB which was fairly small) with a 256GB
Samsung 850 Pro and to put in a 2nd internal 1TB Samsung 850 Pro in the Mini.
This was the best decision ever. The Mini started to fly. The overall improvement of the system was amazing!
It got super fast and super stable.

So I would strongly recommend to do this with your Mini as well. You wonīt regret it for sure. The good thing-
the Samsung 850 Pros are still the best SATA SSDs available but are less than half the price I paid for it 1 1/2
years ago. So itīs more than worth it now.

You have to do a little work yourself to get the drives into the Mini but there is a great tutorial video from OWC
which shows it step by step. You only need to be careful but you can get the work done within 40min. with ease.

What you will need for it.
1) 1x Samsung 850 Pro 256GB for the OS drive.
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-256GB-...amsung+850+Pro

2) 1x Samsung 850 Pro 1TB or 2TB for the 2nd internal drive.
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-2-5-In...amsung+850+Pro
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-2-5-In...amsung+850+Pro

3) 1x Data Doubler Kit incl. high quality 6G SATA controller and the needed tools.
http://www.amazon.com/iFixit-Mini-Du...i+data+doubler

4) 1x tutorial video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63WL3Q7UujI

5) 1x about 40-45min. of your time

This will turn your Mini into a real powerhouse (given you have put in all available 16GB Ram memory as well)!
http://www.amazon.com/Crucial-DDR3L-...12+memory+16gb
Finally internal drives are always the better and faster solution than external ones. You will love it!


Regarding external drives-Firewire 800 drives are still ok for Pro Tools but now USB 3 drives are definitely
professionally useable and reliable stuff for the work with Pro Tools. Itīs proven to be working by many pros.

USB 3 drives are so much faster than Firewire drives, for example a 7200rpm HDD via Firewire will be around
70-80mb/s at the max, the same HDD in an USB 3 enclosure will be around 160-170mb/s. And finally USB 3
drives are much more affordable. External Thunderbolt drives are the fastest but the most expensive ones as well.

If money is no issue external Thunderbolt drives are really cool stuff.

If however money is an issue the most affordable yet really fast Pro Tools-ready external SSD drive with 1TB
($360.- all together) will be if you put this one
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-2-5-In...ds=Samsung+850
into such a one
http://www.amazon.com/Optimized-Inat...sb+3+enclosure

If this still will be too much money you can only use the 500GB SSD ($175.-) or even more affordable a high quality
750GB 7200rpm HDD ($75.-).
http://www.amazon.com/Black-750GB-Pe...ital+black+2.5


The best of success to you, VRW
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-11-2015, 01:30 PM
toolz toolz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: uk
Posts: 188
Default Re: moving from PT10 HD3 PCIe to PTHD12 native

Have also just moved last week one of my PT10 HD3 PCIe systems over to HD native PT’s 12.3 with three 16x16 I/O’s (48 in/outs) Hex core Mac Pro 2012, 24G Ram.

Similarly I’m band recording orientated and the 48 outputs feed an SSL G+ so no real plugins get used… but this is the experience so far:

Working solely at 96k, need to load a session and wait for the track to buffer into cache, I then go to the end of the track (blank space) and hit the space bar once.. this will spike out the CPU just once. ( If I don’t do this, it can produce an error message or a sluggish screen)

At that point all is perfect and this avoids any issues or errors., and 48 track session gives a 4% load on the cpu.. running at 128 samples. Without any glitches/error messages/sluggishness

This setting has been fine for tracking guitars and vocals with no noticeable latency (without any low latency mode needed)

With the HD3 you could just hit space bar, so you have to be a little more gentle whilst it sorts itself out.

Pro Tools HD Native is way more responsive over HD3 on the same computer, which was always very clunky, making inputs/outputs, tacks active/inactive, making plugins. I always felt this was the co-existence of TDM and RTAS causing these issues.

Adding extra outputs seems to add no additional strain to the CPU load.

Really happy how it sounds, so feels like a good move.


Last edited by toolz; 11-11-2015 at 01:41 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-11-2015, 07:02 PM
Barry Johns Barry Johns is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 3,567
Default Re: moving from PT10 HD3 PCIe to PTHD12 native

if you needed to overdub in that session right now, would you be able to with no latency issues?

Can you show us what the mixer window looks like to get an idea of how many plugins you have on the session?
__________________
HD Native Pcie, PTHD 11, PT12 Vanilla, Omni, Lynx Aurora 16, 192 I/O (16 in/8 out), 24 Fader D-Command, lots of preamps and compressors.

MacPro 5.1 (12) Core (2009 MacPro 8 Core Upgraded to a 12 Core MacPro), 56 Gig Ram, SSD System & 3 - 2TB Drives, OSX 10.9.5, Windows 10 Via Bootcamp
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-11-2015, 11:38 PM
toolz toolz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: uk
Posts: 188
Default Re: moving from PT10 HD3 PCIe to PTHD12 native

Tracking it that session now, and the artist couldn't perceive any latency, I popped the headphones on and it sounded really tight, and didn't feel the need to go to/try 64 samples, on the HD3 my lowest buffer available at 96k is 256 samples.

Plug wise, it’s just a UAD 140 Plate sending from Bus one, and a few Digi one band eq’s as high pass filters, so really just making a fast monitor/headphone mix.

Some sessions from this batch, the 140 got switched out to a Dverb. It’s all very light, and being brave with compression on the way in wouldn’t do anything different if it were an HD3.

The main thing I do notice is.. less movement in audio playback, with the HD3 felt there was random playback timing discrepancies, as in ADC would get something wrong and an element would sound laboured, hit space bar play again and it would be fine.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-12-2015, 07:54 AM
Downtown_BE Downtown_BE is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: switzerland
Posts: 134
Default Re: moving from PT10 HD3 PCIe to PTHD12 native

Quote:
Originally Posted by VRW View Post
I had the same (Mac Mini 2012, i7 Quad Core, 2,3GHz, 16GB Ram) for about 3-4 years with PT11 and 12.
I started using it with a 7200rpm Western Digital Black 2,5" for the OS drive and 2 external 7200rpm HDDs
via Firewire 800. This certainly did the job.

Then I replaced the OS drive HHD with a Samsung 840 Pro which was a noticeable improvement as for the
overall performance of the system. Still using the 2 external FW drives.

Finally I decided to replace the OS drive 840 Pro (which was only 128GB which was fairly small) with a 256GB
Samsung 850 Pro and to put in a 2nd internal 1TB Samsung 850 Pro in the Mini.
This was the best decision ever. The Mini started to fly. The overall improvement of the system was amazing!
It got super fast and super stable.

So I would strongly recommend to do this with your Mini as well. You wonīt regret it for sure. The good thing-
the Samsung 850 Pros are still the best SATA SSDs available but are less than half the price I paid for it 1 1/2
years ago. So itīs more than worth it now.

You have to do a little work yourself to get the drives into the Mini but there is a great tutorial video from OWC
which shows it step by step. You only need to be careful but you can get the work done within 40min. with ease.

What you will need for it.
1) 1x Samsung 850 Pro 256GB for the OS drive.
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-256GB-...amsung+850+Pro

2) 1x Samsung 850 Pro 1TB or 2TB for the 2nd internal drive.
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-2-5-In...amsung+850+Pro
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-2-5-In...amsung+850+Pro

3) 1x Data Doubler Kit incl. high quality 6G SATA controller and the needed tools.
http://www.amazon.com/iFixit-Mini-Du...i+data+doubler

4) 1x tutorial video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63WL3Q7UujI

5) 1x about 40-45min. of your time

This will turn your Mini into a real powerhouse (given you have put in all available 16GB Ram memory as well)!
http://www.amazon.com/Crucial-DDR3L-...12+memory+16gb
Finally internal drives are always the better and faster solution than external ones. You will love it!


Regarding external drives-Firewire 800 drives are still ok for Pro Tools but now USB 3 drives are definitely
professionally useable and reliable stuff for the work with Pro Tools. Itīs proven to be working by many pros.

USB 3 drives are so much faster than Firewire drives, for example a 7200rpm HDD via Firewire will be around
70-80mb/s at the max, the same HDD in an USB 3 enclosure will be around 160-170mb/s. And finally USB 3
drives are much more affordable. External Thunderbolt drives are the fastest but the most expensive ones as well.

If money is no issue external Thunderbolt drives are really cool stuff.

If however money is an issue the most affordable yet really fast Pro Tools-ready external SSD drive with 1TB
($360.- all together) will be if you put this one
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-2-5-In...ds=Samsung+850
into such a one
http://www.amazon.com/Optimized-Inat...sb+3+enclosure

If this still will be too much money you can only use the 500GB SSD ($175.-) or even more affordable a high quality
750GB 7200rpm HDD ($75.-).
http://www.amazon.com/Black-750GB-Pe...ital+black+2.5


The best of success to you, VRW
amazing info thx a lot!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-12-2015, 11:53 AM
Craig F Craig F is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 12,591
Default Re: moving from PT10 HD3 PCIe to PTHD12 native

for clarification:
USB 3 if the computer has USB 3 ports
if the computer has USB 2 ports, USB 3 cases will get you no improvement
and you still need to follow the approved dive recommendations (7200+ RPM or quality SSD)
__________________
...

"Fly High Freeee click psst tic tic tic click Bird Yeah!" - dave911

PT11 System Requirements link http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/C...m-Requirements


Thank you,

Craig
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-12-2015, 12:11 PM
Barry Johns Barry Johns is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 3,567
Default Re: moving from PT10 HD3 PCIe to PTHD12 native

Quote:
Originally Posted by toolz View Post
Tracking it that session now, and the artist couldn't perceive any latency, I popped the headphones on and it sounded really tight, and didn't feel the need to go to/try 64 samples, on the HD3 my lowest buffer available at 96k is 256 samples.

Plug wise, it’s just a UAD 140 Plate sending from Bus one, and a few Digi one band eq’s as high pass filters, so really just making a fast monitor/headphone mix.

Some sessions from this batch, the 140 got switched out to a Dverb. It’s all very light, and being brave with compression on the way in wouldn’t do anything different if it were an HD3.

The main thing I do notice is.. less movement in audio playback, with the HD3 felt there was random playback timing discrepancies, as in ADC would get something wrong and an element would sound laboured, hit space bar play again and it would be fine.
My worry is I mix as I go. I am often times fairly deep in a mix with lots of plugins and I am concerned about latency for overdubs/additional tracking with a mix that's fairly dense.
__________________
HD Native Pcie, PTHD 11, PT12 Vanilla, Omni, Lynx Aurora 16, 192 I/O (16 in/8 out), 24 Fader D-Command, lots of preamps and compressors.

MacPro 5.1 (12) Core (2009 MacPro 8 Core Upgraded to a 12 Core MacPro), 56 Gig Ram, SSD System & 3 - 2TB Drives, OSX 10.9.5, Windows 10 Via Bootcamp
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-12-2015, 12:25 PM
Tom Graham's Avatar
Tom Graham Tom Graham is offline
Avid
 
Join Date: Apr 1995
Location: Pasadena,CA
Posts: 412
Default Re: moving from PT10 HD3 PCIe to PTHD12 native

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Johns View Post
My worry is I mix as I go. I am often times fairly deep in a mix with lots of plugins and I am concerned about latency for overdubs/additional tracking with a mix that's fairly dense.
And I think that's where Track Freeze and Commit will really help folks going forward. They can have a ton of plug-ins and processing and Freeze or commit the really latent tracks to do the new overdub.
__________________
Tom Graham
Avid Audio Marketing
Pro Audio and Mixing

tom.graham@avid.com

Check out our Pro Mixing Webinars :
http://www.avid.com/US/resources/pro-mixing-webinars

Avid Pro Mixing Blog:
http://www.avidblogs.com/promixing/
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Trade hd native PCIe card for hd native thunderbolt card and cash? Brandonx1 Buy & Sell 8 03-22-2015 01:45 AM
Is Pro Tools 11 Native PCIe *better* than my Pro Tools 10 HD 2 Accel PCIe? DrFord macOS 1 08-17-2014 07:07 PM
Question PTHD12 Barry Johns Pro Tools 11 23 08-06-2014 06:57 PM
Using PT9 with HD Native PCIE KSR macOS 1 12-19-2013 12:28 PM
PT10+CPTK to PTHD11 to PTHD12 ?? Avidfan Pro Tools 11 35 04-19-2013 05:21 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:32 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com