thoughts on big B....

[pk_hat]

Recently, I've seen many posts about Behringer. Some considering the purchase of one of their mixers, but weren't too sure...
Others, the Truth monitors and again, a little skeptical.

Well, I got my MX2004 mixer a week ago and wanted to shed some light on the big B vs. Mackie debate. First off, now having an external mixer where I can route my guitars->POD, a bass, a CD player, the outs of my synth, some outboard gear, etc., I can't imagine how I managed without one for so long!? It makes life a lot easier!
Next, this little mixer is absolutely incredible. I am not at all saying that it's better than a Mackie, I'm just giving my opinion on Behringer, because a lot (both here and the MAC side are beginning to wonder how worhty is B).
Without going into too many details, I find the construction very solid, the design very sleek and the routing options extremely flexible. In short, a product worthy of a second look, and listen.
I don't know the exact specs of the Mackie 1402 VLZ (appears to be it's closest rival) but it seems you get more out of the Behringer, for around $250 less.

As for monitors, I'm in a very rare position where I could go Mackie ($1200/pair) or Behringer ($650/pair). After a great review of the B's in SoundOnSound (May 2001), the much respectable UK mag, and my expereice with their mixer so far, I'm highly tempted to go with B, and go easy on the Visa card.

I also want to state that Behringer users may often critique the good and bad on a 'case by case/product' basis, just as some people bash the Mackie monitors (as I've witnessed on www.sonicstate.com).
Behringer has been excellent to me so far, I just wanted to share this with everyone.

Happy recording... [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

pk

[GP]

I Already have the Mackie 1604vlz and I am very happy with it, but as you say...the Beringer is actually a better bang for your buck so to speak. It's got evreything the Mackie has(almost) at 300-400$ cheaper. But, at the time of my purchase, I didn't really shop around price wise...just went to my freind and he sold me a mackie. I'm looking at new monitors though....not sure what to get yet.
[img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img] Happy recording!

[crs117]

How many pre's come in the berhinger board vs. makies??? if i recall correctly its 6 vs 10 (cannot recall). And what do you think about the quality of the pre's vs mackies. i plan on making a board purchase soon and i am contemplating both right now. Berhinger looks good, but # of pre's and quality of pre's will effect the decision. I would actually like the 16 channel mackie board (i think 12 pre's).

Christian

[pk_hat]

Hi Christian,

The B has 8 pre's, at least on the MX2004. To be honest, I haven't tried them yet, much less compared them to the Mackie's. My purpose for the board was to monitor all my signals before (and without having to) going into Pro Tools, and to route to some efx I have (Filter Queen, EQ killer). Reason is, I don't record bands right now, perhaps later. When I do use a mic, I'm content using the Digi's pre 1 or 2.
But as far as count, there are 8 XLR-1/4" inputs; 4 stereo inputs (4X2); 2 track tape ins and outs on RCA jacks; one stereo bus ALT 3-4; 2 aux sends and 2 returns. Monitor outs on the front.
On the back, 8 inserts, 2 1/4" main outs, and 2 XLR main outs.
I find the EQ quite musical and smooth.

If I had the $979, I would also have bought a 1604VLZ, but right now, I'm lovin' this Behringer. I just might spend the money I saved on some good monitors, either Mackies or....of course...B-Truth?

pk

[Vertige]

Just adding my two cents to the discussion. Beringher is really pushing real hard on the market to make it's place. Unfortunatly, they have been, in the past, in court for copying designs ( in a cheap way ) with Mackie and Aphex. I try to steer away from company that steal idea from other. After using some of there product ( i work on a show in Vegas ) i found i could not rely long with there product, something always turn out wrong. As of monitors, again the same thing applies. I tested a lot of self powered monitors and finally settled on a pair of Event 20/20 bas. They sound really good and have incredible headroom( with protection a big plus for the occasional boubou. ).

[crs117]

If a product can be built $2-300's cheaper then another product, contain the same functionality and the same quality (or near the same quality), i dont see why we should not support company B. I mean i love mackie products...until recently i have never had many problems with my mackie products. In the past summer i had 3 amps break....2 of which i could fix and one that i sent to a mackie authorized dealer to fix and he couldnt fix it so he sent it back to mackie. So am out a 1400 watt subwoofer amp (thus subwoofer) for at least another month or 2. In addition we had a case where our 24 channel mackie board just started blowing fuses left and right, we had to ship it back again out a board for 3 or so months. Now i love mackie, they make wonderful products etc, but if i can by a similar product for a good quarter off of the price it makes me wonder if i am making a big payment for brand name on mackie products. Sure i would like to be able to afford a 1604 vlz board simply for recording purposes, but if behringer can live up, and not kill my pocket book then i may have to give them a try.

I understand and respect your loyalty (again i am a massive mackie fan), but as of lately i cannot see having any more problems with behringer then i have had with mackie, and be able to save as much money up front(i assure you shipping those amps gets real expensive really fast).

I just would like to hear some true stories about why i would not like behringer products, not exaggerations about thier hardware blowing up...but well the pre's sound a little thin, or the fader's break easily, etc (which i can say mackie makes some of the best faders and pre's for the money). Not a bash war, but a true comparison from both sides.

Christian

[pk_hat]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Vertige:
Just adding my two cents to the discussion. Beringher is really pushing real hard on the market to make it's place. Unfortunatly, they have been, in the past, in court for copying designs ( in a cheap way ) with Mackie and Aphex. I try to steer away from company that steal idea from other. After using some of there product ( i work on a show in Vegas ) i found i could not rely long with there product, something always turn out wrong. As of monitors, again the same thing applies. I tested a lot of self powered monitors and finally settled on a pair of Event 20/20 bas. They sound really good and have incredible headroom( with protection a big plus for the occasional boubou. ).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I can see where you're coming from with this, but still a bit hazy as to where you're headed. I say let past issues rest. Lawsuits from one company to another happen all the time, and the fact that B has once been sued by Mackie does not at all suggest an inferior product, not IMO anyway...
If you've had problems with Behringer products, then surely you'd be apprehensive to buy another, and that's understandable. But for every 1 negative user comment, there could be 9 positives. This of course applies to everything..literally! Case in point, I just sold my Event 20/20bas yesterday. Why? Because to me, they weren't the right speakers. They sounded GREAT, but the mix translation was bloody inconsistent. To someone else, they're a godsend. You obviously like yours, maybe they're tuned just right for the room you work in, who knows.
I do know that in Europe, Behringer is huge. 99% of the interviews I read in Future Music and SoundOnSound about artists, producers, engineers feature many Behringer products in their kit list. It's not necessarily a reason to go out and buy it, but it definetely underlines a certain degree of credibility.

As Christian stated above, it's about value for the money. In a few days, I will actually take the plunge and go with the Truth monitors first. If I can't stand them, I will get the Mackies instead. I remember one guy posted his thoughts on the B-Truths, saying they sounded great to him, but they were his first monitors and he couldn't compare them with anything, cool. I hope to read more comments by owners in the next few days.

pk

[daveq]

I've got a Behringer 2642. I bought this model because it has direct outs on each of the 8 mono mic channels so I can come out the insert if I just want to use the pre or I can come out of the direct out for the channel which is post EQ and post fader. This gives me 8 pres with EQ in front of the digi if I want. Mixer also has 4 stereo line in channels, 4 stereo aux inputs, 6 aux sends and 4 subgroup outs as well as the main outs.
This has let me be very flexible when digi inputs are short (ie subgroup drums etc).
Now: the sound?
I haven't had wide experience with lots of desks and preamps but for the money it is great. (I listened to a Mackie in the shop and couldn't hear a great difference between the two but they have a 25% price difference here in Australia) [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
Dave
ps Don't really like the Truth monitors. I have Dynaudio BM 6's

[KaiXXX]

Since I live in 'The B-Country', I'd like to throw in my $0.02 [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Well, my feelings about B are not very good, but I will try to stick to facts and experiences:

Features and general design of B products seem always good, so with a glance at the price, it's kind of obvious that *quality* is the interesting point.
Check this out: If you hit Bypass at the composer, one channel gets more boosted than the other one (especially interesting in linked mode). -if you turn off the composer, everything is ok again, due to the hard wired bypass- This is not what I call a bypass, hardwired or not!

Combinator (multiband compressor, I think it's not beeing built anymore): Although the combinator is considered as one of the better B products, the sound gets muddy due to phase problems at the crossover frequencies (would you like to strap something like that across your master bus?). The in-built clipper limiter doesn't catch al the peaks (and that in our digital age...), causes distortion though.

A friend of mine used to own the B copy of the 'M' 8-Bus desk. He had problems with using condensor-mics, since phantom power from B desks isn't very clean. No, he's not the only one who has that problem, but yes, phantom power can make sounds! When I worked on the M desk with this friend, he told me that he liked it much better, the EQs and Mic-Pres have a much better quality. (BTW my friend sold the B console and bought an Alesis instead, he's very happy with that, he can use his condenser mic now.)

Ok, I confess! I actually own a B powerplay headphone amplifier. It hisses, but since it's not in my signal path it's ok. It really has a lot of power. (got it for like $70)

I don't know what it's like in the states or elsewhere, but in B-Country almost every smaller to mid-sized studio has one or more B-Boxes in his rack. You find the B stuff everywhere second hand for really low prices. And if you have an empty rackspace, with less than $100 a composer or whatever is almost as cheap as a blanking plate [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

But come on, *nobody* uses B mic-pres in a professional studio.

One last thought for now: If B would take their sometimes really good ideas and build them with high quality parts and sell them for maybe 20% to 30% more then the actual price, I would go out and buy them! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

[upetewd]

all I can say is, you get what you pay for usually holds true in just about everything. If it sounds good to you, and gives you the results you are looking for, and it's in your price range, then thats the ticket!

Dave