Questions about command 8 and Mackie

[ngn]

Hey, I've read the posts on this board comparing the command 8 to the Mackie control universal. I'm trying to figure out which surface I want to get. I will be running PT LE mainly for post-production work. What, really and truly, are the benefits of the command 8 over the mackie? I know that the command 8 has a monitor section, but I will mostly be monitoring from one set of near fields. Also, if I need to monitor from other speakers, I can do so through the outputs on my mbox, and if switching between monitors gets annoying, I can purchase a separate monitor section for the difference in the cost between the mackie and the command 8 (also, a separate monitor section makes for a more flexible situation in case my system changes).

Functionally, as a control surface, are there any differences between the command 8 and mackie?

1. People have said that the mackie's master fader doesn't work on PT. I understand that, but can't you simply map a master fader to one of the 8 active faders on the mackie? I know you can do that on the Command 8. If you can map a master fader to a fader on the mackie, then isn't the mackie and the command 8 the same in this regard and there are no benefits to one versus the other?

2. Does the mackie have more buttons and control over the software than the command 8? Buttons for editing, save and undo buttons, and a jog wheel, for example? Can you do more on a mackie than on a command 8?

3. The FLIP button is what I'm also interested in. There are some plug-ins that I would like to control with the faders. I have heard that the mackie can't flip plug-in parameters to the faders like the command 8. However, there is a flip button on the mackie. Has anyone here had success flipping/mapping the plug-in parameters to the faders on a mackie?

4. Expandability and adaptability seem like one of the reasons to buy the mackie. However, I've heard mixed reviews on the expansion with the mackie and PT. Does anyone here use a mackie with the extension fader packs in pro tools? I've heard the banking of the tracks gets confusing when you expand fader packs. Is this true? Is track layout on expanded mackies difficult to work with? Also, the expanded faders can't control plug-ins. Is this a major issue? Or, is fader expansion a great aspect of the mackie and easy to work with and a big plus? I think I would go with the Mackie if I knew I could easily expand the faders and continue to use PT with ease.

Command 8 on the other hand can't really expand (I don't want to buy the 002 on top of the command 8). My question here is this: Is it difficult to use the command 8 on large post-production sessions given its limited fader count? I've never worked on such a small console before. Is lack of faders a true disadvantage and limiting factor? Or is it rather easy to keep track of a large session despite a limited fader count?

In short, how important is fader pack expansion in terms of speeding up and increasing the ease of post-production mixing?

5. I may be using Nuendo in addition to PT. Has anyone had any success mixing in Nuendo with the Mackie? How about mixing in Nuendo with the command 8 (is this even possible?).

Finally, what's the deal with the motormate and motormix? Are these worth looking into? Are these discontinued? I can't find any dealers and one dealer said the motormix is discontinued? Any benefit to this system over the mackie or the command 8? Seems to do exactly what the mackie does. What's the point?

Thanks for all of your help -- I greatly appreciate it and look forward to the responses!

[MJT24]

The command 8 is a hunk of junk. It's easier to just use the mouse for controlling plug ins, the mackie is way better, the resolution of the knobs is laughable, you can't use the knobs or faders for fine adjustments because the resolution is so bad, but if you don't mind adjusting things in 4 or 5db increments you'll be stoked, the faders on the comm 8 are lame, Mackie is way better again, the faders are very smooth and silent on the Mackie, with the comm 8 they actually made a button to disable the faders so you can hear your mix without the noise from the faders, the mackie can work with other apps too, comm 8 doesn't or they say it does in some other mode or something but it's a joke. Get the Mackie. You will be so bummed if you buy the comm 8, hey would you like to buy mine? The least they could have done is allow the command 8 to work with PT 5 in OS 9 but of course you can't use it with OS 9 in Pro Tools 5. I hate mine, I wish I would have bought the Mackie.

[Chief Technician]

1. People have said that the mackie's master fader doesn't work on PT. I understand that, but can't you simply map a master fader to one of the 8 active faders on the mackie?

You have no control over the mapping in the sense that you can't say "I always want fader X on my Mackie to be channel y in Pro Tools" while banking or stepping across other groups of 8 consecutive channels. You can only bank by groups of 8, so the best you can do is arrange the channels in the mix window such that your master is always mapped to a particular fader whil you are within that bank of 8. Even if you move through channel by channel, you can still only view 8 consecutive channels.

I know you can do that on the Command 8. If you can map a master fader to a fader on the mackie, then isn't the mackie and the command 8 the same in this regard and there are no benefits to one versus the other?

The Mackie forces you to stay within a group of 8 consecutive channels to have a master fader mapped to it. The Command|8 does not have this limitation.

2. Does the mackie have more buttons and control over the software than the command 8?

Yes.

Buttons for editing, save and undo buttons, and a jog wheel, for example?

Yes.

Can you do more on a mackie than on a command 8?

In the context of buttons on the controller for accessing other functions, yes.

3. The FLIP button is what I'm also interested in. There are some plug-ins that I would like to control with the faders. I have heard that the mackie can't flip plug-in parameters to the faders like the command 8.

This is correct.

However, there is a flip button on the mackie. Has anyone here had success flipping/mapping the plug-in parameters to the faders on a mackie?

I believe the flip button on the Mackie is for Mackie Control mode.

4. Expandability and adaptability seem like one of the reasons to buy the mackie. However, I've heard mixed reviews on the expansion with the mackie and PT. Does anyone here use a mackie with the extension fader packs in pro tools?

Yes.

I've heard the banking of the tracks gets confusing when you expand fader packs. Is this true?

I have not used it on large format sessions, but I cannot fathom myself being confused. That does not mean that you will not be confused though. Only you can make that determination.

Is track layout on expanded mackies difficult to work with?

I don't understand your question enough to answer.

Also, the expanded faders can't control plug-ins.

True.

Is this a major issue?

Only if you were hoping it would.

Or, is fader expansion a great aspect of the mackie and easy to work with and a big plus?

Most people that use the Mackie see fader expansion as its key strength.

I think I would go with the Mackie if I knew I could easily expand the faders and continue to use PT with ease.

Expanding the faders is as easy as connecting the expander to your MIDI interface, configuring it in Audio MIDI Setup, then choosing the expander it Setups-->Peripherals-->Controllers. Whether or not you can continue to use Pro Tools with ease is a decision you will have to make.

Command 8 on the other hand can't really expand (I don't want to buy the 002 on top of the command 8).

If you are using TDM, the 002 is not even an option.

My question here is this: Is it difficult to use the command 8 on large post-production sessions given its limited fader count?

We have mixers working with sessions that have 64 voices on a Command|8.

I've never worked on such a small console before.

I do not wish to debate semantics, but the Command|8 is a controller, not a console.

Is lack of faders a true disadvantage and limiting factor?

Only for the people I work with that wanted a Mackie because it could be expanded.

Or is it rather easy to keep track of a large session despite a limited fader count?

It may not be a question of easy. It may be a question of adaptation. We have a few mixers that use the Command|8, and I do not get this complaint from them.

In short, how important is fader pack expansion in terms of speeding up and increasing the ease of post-production mixing?

This is hard to guage, but the more physical faders you have, the less you have to concern yourself with rearranging channels in groups of 8 to see what you want to see simultaneously.

5. I may be using Nuendo in addition to PT. Has anyone had any success mixing in Nuendo with the Mackie? How about mixing in Nuendo with the command 8 (is this even possible?).

I have not tried stand-alone mode.

Finally, what's the deal with the motormate and motormix?

MotorMix is, in my opinion, useless. Someone that used to have one now has a Mackie with an expander.

Are these worth looking into?

In my opinion, no.

Are these discontinued?

I do not know.

Any benefit to this system over the mackie or the command 8?

Doubtful.

Seems to do exactly what the mackie does. What's the point?

Either of the other two products will do it better.

[macr0w]

The command 8 is a hunk of junk. It's easier to just use the mouse for controlling plug ins, the mackie is way better, the resolution of the knobs is laughable, you can't use the knobs or faders for fine adjustments because the resolution is so bad, but if you don't mind adjusting things in 4 or 5db increments you'll be stoked, the faders on the comm 8 are lame, Mackie is way better again, the faders are very smooth and silent on the Mackie, with the comm 8 they actually made a button to disable the faders so you can hear your mix without the noise from the faders, the mackie can work with other apps too, comm 8 doesn't or they say it does in some other mode or something but it's a joke. Get the Mackie. You will be so bummed if you buy the comm 8, hey would you like to buy mine? The least they could have done is allow the command 8 to work with PT 5 in OS 9 but of course you can't use it with OS 9 in Pro Tools 5. I hate mine, I wish I would have bought the Mackie.

I have been very pleased with my C/8. Works great, no problems. Much more integration than the hui.

[Noiz2]

MotorMix is, in my opinion, useless. Someone that used to have one now has a Mackie with an expander.

In my opinion, no.
[qoute]Are these discontinued?

I do not know.
]quote]Any benefit to this system over the mackie or the command 8?

[/QUOTE]
Doubtful.


[/QUOTE]

Motor Mix was a pain and didn't work very well (not touch faders). Motor Mate is a different story. Also MotorMix 2 which has touch faders and works as standalone or as an expander for the Motor Mate.
The pluses are smaller footprint, tons of command buttons, better jog shuttle, poss better fader caps, built like a tank, monitor section, can work with a variety of applications, expandable, made in the US (if that is a plus to you).
Cons are smaller foot print, tons of command buttons (these are pros if you like or need them and cons if you don't - for me footprint was a pro but all the buttons was a con), makes a loud pop through the monitor section when powering up or down so make sure your amp is off!.
Mackie is made in China and the Digi??? They are both all plastic, the Mackie has a funky jog shuttle function (the wheel is stepped and it takes a bunch of button presses to get out of the mode). C8 has no jog/shuttle. I like the display better on the Mackie and I like the knobs a lot better. I also prefer Mackies single function buttons preferable to the MotorMate muti-multi-multi function buttons (some have up to 8 different modes!).

That said I have a MotorMate and am happy. I would probably be happy with the Mackie also (for different reasons). But I'm pretty sure I would not be happy with the C8.

[aliengroover]

I have been very pleased with my C/8. Works great, no problems. Much more integration than the hui.

A good and pleasing bit of gear the C8 may be, but, as I always ask of those who say what you said: tell me how the C8 has "much more integration"? I'm really curious, 'cause I've yet to see the reality in that.
Peace

[AdamF]

I have a few relative questions:

1) Does anyone know if there's any issues using a mackie control with PT M-Powered? My understanding is it just sets up as an HUI which seems to apply to M-Powered as well. (I just switched from my LE last year).

2) Can you record plug-in automation during a pass using the mackie interface? i.e. a lowpass cutoff on a mcdsp filterbank for instance during a pass.

3) Do midi tracks map as a standard track as well? If I'm automating midi paramaters on an outboard synth for example, can you use the mackie interface to control and record automation data?

4) How is the resolution of the faders/encoders and functionality of all the controls vs. the command 8?

5) Frankly the master fader is no concern for me, but do all the other functions work (shuttle, transport, etc).

Forgive me as i've never worked with a control surface of any kind, even though i've been at this protools thing for like 10 years lol (please don't laugh!)

I've had my trusty Mackie 1402 for probably almost that long and it's been a great piece. I was very impressed with the mackie control surface in person. It seems to be very well built and I've always been a stickler with fader quality and feel. I love digi hardware from the past (and current HD hardware) but I just am not feeling the digi002 and command 8 pieces at all. The faders look and feel cheesy and it just doesn't feel to be as solid of a piece as the mackie for instance.

Any feedback on my questions would be greatly appreciated

[Barry Johns]

I have both units. The command 8 is hands down better in protools than the MCU. It flows really well. The guy who said it was junk, must be using something different than me. The MCU works awesome with Logic and that's why I have both. I bought the Command 8 just to see the difference. and found it to be a very good unit for protools.

Why I like it more:

Flip - Awesome for quickly adjusting sends

Hide/Show Tracks - When you hide a track in Protools the Command 8 updates, the MCU does not

Plug In Edit - Much better on the Command 8, clumsy on the MCU

Faders are more responsive on the Command 8

There is nothing I like better on the MCU vs. the Command 8 in protools. I didn't find the Shuttle/Scrub feature on the MCU to be beneficial to me. I could never get it to jog. If you do sample accurate editing, then it's good for that, but I don't do editing to that extent.

I also got MIDI errors on a regular basis on the MCU and tried various Midi I/O's and still got the errors occasionally.

[nedd@nl]

The command 8 is a hunk of junk. It's easier to just use the mouse for controlling plug ins, the mackie is way better, the resolution of the knobs is laughable, you can't use the knobs or faders for fine adjustments because the resolution is so bad, but if you don't mind adjusting things in 4 or 5db increments you'll be stoked,

Have you ever heard of command+adjust to go into the finest details?

[doylemusic]

Guess I'll chime in my two cents.

I was faced with the same decision about 8 months ago Mackie vs. C8. I ended up going with the C8 and have been very happy with it! I don't do as much post production as it soudns like you do, I primarily track and mix and the C8 works well for that. My only gripe is lack of ability to expand faders, which is why I considered the Mackie. If I could add 8 faders to my C8, it would be perfect for me.

I find the look and feel of the command 8 to be good. Faders feel, respond and function very well. I do not use the C8 to control plug ins. I haven't really put the time in yet, but it seems to be easier with the mouse, so I agree with the person that stated the same.

As for the MotoMix. I have a friend who has one and he loves it! Som, to each his own...as always, comes down to what you like not what any of us say.