Best workflow to match new cut of video?

[TVPostSound]

Originally Posted by mr.armadillo

No need to do hand conform anymore with Conformalizer 4.1's powerful video compare. Awesome. Just saved my *** today!!

Unfortunately, I take Conformalizer to the bleeding edge, too may similar graphics in a 55 minute show.
BUT

I found a workaround for lazy AEs!!

Had them give me a bin of the original cut, and a bin of the new cut. Sans media!!
Remember the cutdown is made from the same sequence, so Im tracing to source code.

Opened the bins in my Video Satellite system, created a top down EDL of V1 and 2.
Cleaned my own EDLs in text editor, by removing the duplicate edits (green screen backplate)

183 edits in the compare window from setup to finish in 2 hours, 3 more hours healing the edits.

I'm back to using it after a couple of seasons without it.

BTW the auto motion clean up, and markers are a real help!!

[reducedfatoreo]

Originally Posted by mr.armadillo

No need to do hand conform anymore with Conformalizer 4.1's powerful video compare. Awesome. Just saved my *** today!!

Unfortunately, I still have to hand conform since I don't have a studio to buy it for me, but maybe sometime in the future after I pick up enough freelancing gigs I'll be able to check it out.

In the meantime, I use the aforementioned techniques, but I add this little neat trick:

Rather than making an edit group of your tracks to compare against your new reference, zoom way out, make your track heights tiny, and select everything that's yours.

Hit cmd-opt-g to make a region group. Now zoom back in and start making your cuts as described above.

This variation lets you pop a sync point (cmd-,), onto your region group, tab to transients in your reference track, and then cntrl-shift-click to snap the group into place.

[Frank Kruse]

Originally Posted by reducedfatoreo

Unfortunately, I still have to hand conform since I don't have a studio to buy it for me, but maybe sometime in the future after I pick up enough freelancing gigs I'll be able to check it out.

In the meantime, I use the aforementioned techniques, but I add this little neat trick:

Rather than making an edit group of your tracks to compare against your new reference, zoom way out, make your track heights tiny, and select everything that's yours.

Hit cmd-opt-g to make a region group. Now zoom back in and start making your cuts as described above.

This variation lets you pop a sync point (cmd-,), onto your region group, tab to transients in your reference track, and then cntrl-shift-click to snap the group into place.

You can do that but all your AUXes and VCAs with automation (reverbs, busses etc won't follow your shifts.

[Postman]

Originally Posted by mr.armadillo

No need to do hand conform anymore with Conformalizer 4.1's powerful video compare. Awesome. Just saved my *** today!!

If only life were so simple! I don't mean to disparage such an advanced feature but only to point to an alternate reality...

Comparing video cuts is a powerful feature but it will not find audio changes that are made under a clip of video, such as replaced words or new lines of dialog that are inserted off-screen. Two weeks ago I did not know such changes had been made in my current project, indeed the editor claimed his changes were confined to trims and new inserted material. He obviously had forgotten he made both word and sentence changes in sections that had been declared "locked". I've learned to dis-believe everything an editor says in such matters so as soon as the auto-conform was done I played through the film comparing my auto-conform against his Avid mix. That's when the "interior" changes were found. Those changes should be contained in the EDLs I got (thankfully these clients acknowledge the existence of "EDL") but without some forethought by the editor and AEs, or at the very least an alert given that such changes were made, how would I know without a play-through? Such a time-intensive step is about the only certain way I know to catch everything.

It is very annoying!

[Ray JB]

The only way to really check this is to do a real time playback with old guide track in say the left speaker and the new guide in the right, really old-school but definitive!

Always an eye-opener and the little 2-3 frame internal dialogue shifts that are not reflected in a vision EDL will appear as audible flamming. Drop a marker for the change and continue until the end. Then clean up the mess....

YMMV of course but those added lines and shifts are just never signposted by the Picture Editors, best to do the compare and avoid the egg on face routine in the mix!

[Frank Kruse]

Originally Posted by Postman

If only life were so simple! I don't mean to disparage such an advanced feature but only to point to an alternate reality...

Comparing video cuts is a powerful feature but it will not find audio changes that are made under a clip of video, such as replaced words or new lines of dialog that are inserted off-screen. Two weeks ago I did not know such changes had been made in my current project, indeed the editor claimed his changes were confined to trims and new inserted material. He obviously had forgotten he made both word and sentence changes in sections that had been declared "locked". I've learned to dis-believe everything an editor says in such matters so as soon as the auto-conform was done I played through the film comparing my auto-conform against his Avid mix. That's when the "interior" changes were found. Those changes should be contained in the EDLs I got (thankfully these clients acknowledge the existence of "EDL") but without some forethought by the editor and AEs, or at the very least an alert given that such changes were made, how would I know without a play-through? Such a time-intensive step is about the only certain way I know to catch everything.

It is very annoying!

It sounds like you want to avoid playing through a new cut entirely? What's time consuming about playing 20 minutes through a reel to check what the new cut is?

I don't think comparing audio-EDLs will help you a lot because there's no way for a machine to differentiate between relevant changes and irrelevant changes when it comes down to changes in the avid audio tracks.

Tools like Conformalizer are to get your own timeline back in sync to the current picture cut. Not to trace changes editorial might have done to **their** audio tracks.

Imagine a function like some word-processors have that follow every change made since you activated the function. Some kind of red flag where ever the picture editor changed anything. Would that help? Getting back an AAF with 300 red markers in every reel 90% of them probably irrelevant? And then you'd still have to conform the old AAF to compare it.

Wouldn't it be faster to simply play the reel for 20 minutes and listen after Conformalizing it?

If you want to semi-automate that process you could offline bounce the old AAF phase reverse to the new one and look at the delta and then dive in and look at it closer where there's signal.

Problem is: what is a "change" to you? A different fade that is 2 frames shorter? Would you want that flagged? Or the same clip on a different track with different level? Obviously not. But how do you draw the line between a relevant change and an irrelevant one? This really depends on the exact scene and what you are currently working on.

No machine will ever be able to overcome the lack of communication between departments I'm afraid.

[TVPostSound]

Originally Posted by Postman

If only life were so simple! I don't mean to disparage such an advanced feature but only to point to an alternate reality...

Comparing video cuts is a powerful feature but it will not find audio changes that are made under a clip of video, such as replaced words or new lines of dialog that are inserted off-screen. Two weeks ago I did not know such changes had been made in my current project, indeed the editor claimed his changes were confined to trims and new inserted material. He obviously had forgotten he made both word and sentence changes in sections that had been declared "locked". I've learned to dis-believe everything an editor says in such matters so as soon as the auto-conform was done I played through the film comparing my auto-conform against his Avid mix. That's when the "interior" changes were found. Those changes should be contained in the EDLs I got (thankfully these clients acknowledge the existence of "EDL") but without some forethought by the editor and AEs, or at the very least an alert given that such changes were made, how would I know without a play-through? Such a time-intensive step is about the only certain way I know to catch everything.

It is very annoying!

I drop the new AAF below my conformed audio, play through using the editors mix down against my new conform, when I hear an internal change, I look down to the new AAF, and can see the difference. then bring up the new clips.

My last 3 conforms this week had nearly 200 edits (pull ups)!! With a dozen internal changes.

[Postman]

Yes, I do it old school nearly every time and no I do not have a problem playing through a 90 or 100 minute film. That is about the only way to be sure of what happened. I don't need lectures guys, I meant only to balance the idea mentioned a couple of times earlier in this thread that comparing picture cuts is somehow making things easier and better. It isn't and I gave my most recent example why. I agree with Frank, the lack of communications, often due to carelessness or laziness, is what is most frustrating.