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  #11  
Old 11-15-2000, 01:54 PM
PTPerson PTPerson is offline
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Default Re: Monitor Board \"Upgrade\"

QUOTE:
Please understand that we can’t simply retrofit every ProControl ever sold for free, that's not a good business practice!
---
Either is selling ****ty equipment for a lot of money.

QUOTE:
it’s normal for sustaining engineering to implement improvements, but rarely does it mean a complete retrofit of an entire product line.
---
When a car company sells a defective car it gets re-called and fixed without charge.

QUOTE:
However, we feel it is fair to ask current users to pay $395 for the upgrade because it is a replacement for what they already have that has always worked as advertised.
--
Worked as advertised? Oh please.....yeah it works but not well......hell the MUTE switch doesn't MUTE.......there's one case of it not working how advertised. The buttons are noisy (I don't remember reading about that in the blurbs), out of phase master outs (i don't remember reading that in the spec section either)

QUOTE:
This probably all sounds like marketing hooey to all of you
--
Too right it does.

I'll be writing to every magazine about this one, i'm totally outraged that we have to pay for fundamentals that should work from day 1......geeez we have to pay for the "luxury" of clean/noiseless buttons, in phase outputs, and a mute that mutes.

I assumed that these problems would get fixed sooner or later but I cant beleive it's going to cost me close to $1000 aussie dollars to get it working PROPERLY.




[This message has been edited by PTPerson (edited November 15, 2000).]
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  #12  
Old 11-15-2000, 07:22 PM
bairtracks bairtracks is offline
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Default Re: Monitor Board \"Upgrade\"

Gannon- Thanks for the reply.

Obviously we have different points of view on this.

First, the problem- My unit does not have, as you say- "occasional small switch pops and clicks". Every time I hit the "Mono", "Mute", or "Dim" buttons. I get a loud click. This is especially a problem during voice over sessions, as the "Dim" button clicks every time the producer presses the "talkback" button. Clients notice, and comment negatively. I complained about this problem to customer service the first week I got the Pro Control. I also remember that there were threads about this problem on the DawMac mailing list, and here in the user conference. I am sure that your "customer support lines don’t ring off the hook with dissatisfied users", but once in a while things are not perfect, and we do complain. As I said before, I buy and use your products with great success. In this specific instance, buying a $10,000 console that has pops and clicks in the monitor section, and then to be asked to pay $395 for a fix is a bit galling.

In the past I have been extremely happy with Digidesign customer service. They once replaced my main Pro Control unit merely because I mentioned some cosmetic problems. Why this is so different, I do not understand. I am not asking for "eternal parity for free". I am sure that the amount that I have spent previously on upgrades, new versions and replacements so that I can remain current, is considerable. I am always willing to pay for new features and capabilities. Bug fixes, no.

If you are not going to retrofit the "upgrade", how about a schematic for a fix? Or if not, how about giving owners the schematic of the existing circuit so that we can design a fix ourselves? A properly placed capacitor would probably do it.

Of course I understand your reluctance to replace all the units in the field. That would be expensive. As for it being "not a good business practice", I am not so sure. I imagine that the ProControl users probably represent a group that has spent a considerable amount of money on Digidesign gear and are using it in commercial installations. These might be very valuable customers, and they also might be in the position to evangelize Digidesign, if they are happy with their treatment by the company. Just a thought. Remember what happened to Avid. Hmmm.

Just some thoughts.
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  #13  
Old 11-15-2000, 07:59 PM
JKD99 JKD99 is offline
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Default Re: Monitor Board \"Upgrade\"

Hear hear.
As far as the "service lines not ringing off the hook", just because they're not ringing doesn't mean everybody's happy. Sometimes customers don't bother to complain, but they don't bother to come back, either. Pro Tools and Pro Control are the backbone of my work, but it's little things like this that will come to mind when the inevitable "new DAW on the block" shows up. Just my 2 cents.

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  #14  
Old 11-15-2000, 08:12 PM
houser houser is offline
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Default Re: Monitor Board \"Upgrade\"

Hi,

Trying to be statesmanlike, fitting to the times we live in...;-)

It is allways a delicate scenario when the people who bought 1.0 of a product see the people who buy 2.0 get a better product...even if they joined the train later.
regardless of the price..
This is philosophy, not finance.

We bought three of those things and have had all of them replaced once on warranty and one of then twice...good practice Digi, Credit when credit is due...

I also have to say this is not a subtle thing.
The clicking on the monitor settings panel is embarrasing
and not the Pro gear we thought we bought.
We spent many hours troubleshooting grounding as we figured it can't make this kind of sound out of the box.

AH WELL, we complained about this on day one and this should have been a free fix IMHO.

Buy I *am* glad Digi is fixing it.....;-=

and we will pay the 395 as I guess we have to...
*if* we can get a re-count of the Faders on the second fader pack as there should have been nine...;-9
...and we did count our faders before 2 P.M....

regards
j


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  #15  
Old 11-16-2000, 12:12 AM
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Chris Lambrechts Chris Lambrechts is offline
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Default Re: Monitor Board \"Upgrade\"

Gannon,

How about Europe,............, we (at least I) didn't receive anything yet ???



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  #16  
Old 11-16-2000, 08:39 AM
John McDaniel John McDaniel is offline
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Default Re: Monitor Board \"Upgrade\"

Well..... really....

In the scheme of things, $395 is not that much money if your making a living (or trying to) with a ProControl. Has it been that long since people owned rooms full of analog gear? Think of the "upgrades" to consoles, tape machines, plate reverbs, etc. that you may have happily paid for in years past just to get the improved performance.

The click issue seems to be more annoying to some than others. It's a gain structure thing regarding your monitor amp situation. If I go much past 12 to 1 o'clock with the main monitor pot on the PC, I'm curling people's hair for material referenced to -14dBFS and my monitors are dead quiet working at the amps's gain setting. That said, the click thing has been a long standing issue that needs fixing. Frankly I'm more pissed about the ashtray to the right of the transport section. Who? WHO, thought this was a usable solution for getting around the screen??? I'd happily give a couple hundred bucks for a great trackball retrofit. I'm also more upset about the lack of editing flexibility/capability on the PC, the future improvement of which was a lengthy topic of discussion nearly two years ago when I bought my first PC. Unfulfilled desires to date.

As for a MUTE button problem, I don't think I've experienced that one.

No one has said whether this is a field installable item? 2 x $395 won't be an easy check to write and it is a bit galling, but in the world view, things could be worse --Digi could act like Mackie regarding the HUI and say, "screw it, we know there are problems and we're not going to fix them."

So... how DOES Platinum Service work and what do we get with it for having bought a ProControl?

Gannon?

later, j mcd
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  #17  
Old 11-16-2000, 09:06 AM
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AvidCS AvidCS is offline
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Default Re: Monitor Board \"Upgrade\"

Hi John,

Hmmm, Digi does not have a Platnium service. You may be thinking of our one year Silver support plan that comes free with the Pro Control, available at registration. This plan offers a toll free number and access code to use for expedited customer support during business hours.
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  #18  
Old 11-16-2000, 11:15 AM
Jules Jules is offline
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Default Re: Monitor Board \"Upgrade\"

Despite screaming about the monitor section before I bought a PC, (due to epic unanswered threads bitching about it here on the DUC that really gave me a scare as a prospective buyer) - I have experienced - No trouble with this section AT ALL. perhaps the fact I use powered Genelecs helps I dunno...

1) No deafening clicks down the talkback to the artists
2) No wacky pans to the left on the monitor pot (no more than usual, studios world wide have this 'feature'!)
3) All 9 buttons work fine (touch wood!)

So re the monitor section , I have turned from a screamer to a beamer .

It's my only 'desk' so I remain keen on improvements and updates.

Where can I get a detailed spec on what improvement the upgrade affords? I might get it from an audio spec point of view...

I think it good that digi take into account the above gripes, I dont mean to diminish their validity. Merely report my experience.

Jules
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  #19  
Old 11-16-2000, 02:34 PM
PTPerson PTPerson is offline
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Default Re: Monitor Board \"Upgrade\"

Who will be doing the replacement here in Australia?, i'm curious as there are only 2 digidesign employees here in Australia. Is it field replaceable?


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  #20  
Old 11-16-2000, 08:00 PM
johnnyv johnnyv is offline
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Default Re: Monitor Board \"Upgrade\"

Hey, the SSL desk I bought in 1986 worked pretty darned perfectly from day one. No clicks, pops, mute switches working. And that desk is STILL banging out hits. Takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin'! Of course, it did cost 300K+
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