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  #71  
Old 02-13-2018, 09:15 AM
TNM TNM is offline
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Default Re: Is my MONSTER 12-core 3,33GHz Mac Pro underperforming on low buffer sizes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kroon View Post
At least I think we can safely assume that the audio drive being on a PCIe SSD adapter is not causing the problem, as I was able to record successfully to it when running PTHD 10 on Mountain Lion.

In that scenario however, the OS was on a spinner in a regular drive bay.

So I'll rip out both PCIe adapters as soon as I get the chance, to try and put the theory to rest, and move the system and audio SSD drives back to the optical bay SATA connectors where they lived earlier.

Please note that the PCIe adapters have only been in this computer for a few weeks, and I had problems even before I installed them.
well, install yosemite on your other pcie ssd where sierra is installed, and use both as you were, rather than just one, and if it works, you will know the issue is a combination of sierra with the most recent pro tools.

Or keep both pcie ssd's in when using yosemite of a spinner, record to both simultaneously, and perhaps it's the case of both of them using too much pci bandwidth and taking it from the HDN card. This way you could do that test without installing yosemite on the pcie ssd.

Or perhaps put a large sample library on one of them and stream some samples from it as you are recording to the spinner. Just try make sure both PCIE ssd are in operation whilst you are using yosemite from the spinner..

yet it begs to wonder.. you say you don't think they had anything to do with it, but both situations that are giving you success, is with the OS *NOT* on the pcie ssd but rather in the sata bay.

So we have gotten to the point where it can only be one of two things..

1) Sierra and recent version PT issue with your particular setup
2) PCIE ssd issue

or maybe a possible third scenario, where it's a combination of sierra and something, like maybe the graphics.

I'll be interested to see when it's finally sorted for good, but in the meantime, it's marvellous that you can record at low latency with that very same computer using a different hardware combination, and pretty much confirms that the chips are not too slow to do such a thing.

I am bowing out of this, as i will no longer put up with musicman's hostility.. i made him an offer to stop talking to me and quoting me, to prove i wanted no issue, but he can't stop. This is proof to me that he just likes interacting with me and trying to get me to reply to him.. So, i'm out. He wins. It's amazing when i have put it on the table that i want literally nothing to do with someone, and he is trying to force me into his life by quoting me continually. I mean, come on.

I hope you work it out so it works for you in sierra, with your pcie SSD's and all is well. Truly.
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System 1: iMac i7 3.4ghz quad core, OSX 10.12.6, 32GBRam, 2TB Internal Apple HDD 7200 rpm, 256GB internal Apple SSD, TBolt 7200rpm G-Drive, Pro Tools 2018.7, Cubase 9.5.3, UAD Apollo8 TBolt Quad x2, UAD satellite Octo TBolt x2, TBolt 512GB Lacie SSD, ATI 6970M
System 2: Macbook Pro Retina 2.8ghz i7 quad core, OSX 10.12.6, 16GB Apple Ram, 1TB Apple SSD, 1TB Thunderbolt SSD, Cubase 9.5.3, Pro Tools 2018.7, Apollo Twin Duo, Nvidia 750M/Intel Iris Pro
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  #72  
Old 02-13-2018, 09:17 AM
Kroon Kroon is offline
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Default Re: Is my MONSTER 12-core 3,33GHz Mac Pro underperforming on low buffer sizes?

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Originally Posted by TNM View Post
Ok, finally, so it WAS the OS being on the PCI ssd. (...) Look, i don't buy that the problem is sierra which is why i am sticking to the pcie ssd theory.

I’m migrating the Yosemite install to an SSD on the PCIe adapter as we speak, so we will soon have the answer.

If things are still good after this move I’d say we should be able to put the PCIe SSD theory to rest - on this system at least.
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  #73  
Old 02-13-2018, 09:22 AM
TNM TNM is offline
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Default Re: Is my MONSTER 12-core 3,33GHz Mac Pro underperforming on low buffer sizes?

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Originally Posted by Kroon View Post
I’m migrating the Yosemite install to an SSD on the PCIe adapter as we speak, so we will soon have the answer.

If things are still good after this move I’d say we should be able to put the PCIe SSD theory to rest - on this system at least.
yes, and i really hope they are good.. i'd love to put it to rest.. it's not about being right but about a process of elimination.


So if yosemite and PT 12.8.1 works on the pcie ssd config you had prior with sierra, then it's definitely a sierra issue with your computer. Maybe because the graphics system of the OS had some changes in el capitan and up, and it's having some issues with your 680. It could be anything. But as i said above, just a courtesy since i saw you quote me, but i'm out. Best of luck.. I'll check it again in a week in the background and hopefully all sorted for you.

PS to make it a fair test, make sure both pci SSD are working like with the sierra install.. os and pro tools on pcie ssd and audio drive on other pcie SSD. Cheers, I really do want it to just work for you once and for all.
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System 2: Macbook Pro Retina 2.8ghz i7 quad core, OSX 10.12.6, 16GB Apple Ram, 1TB Apple SSD, 1TB Thunderbolt SSD, Cubase 9.5.3, Pro Tools 2018.7, Apollo Twin Duo, Nvidia 750M/Intel Iris Pro

Last edited by TNM; 02-13-2018 at 11:20 AM. Reason: spelling only
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  #74  
Old 02-14-2018, 02:47 PM
Kroon Kroon is offline
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Default Re: Is my MONSTER 12-core 3,33GHz Mac Pro underperforming on low buffer sizes?

UPDATE:

So I migrated Yosemite onto an SSD drive and put it into a SATA II connector in the optical bay. Recording in Pro Tools worked perfectly.

Then I tried connecting it to one of the PCIe adapters instead. Boot times were reduced from 110 to 45 seconds and I was able to measure higher read and write speeds. Apart from that I noticed no difference. Recording in Pro Tools still worked perfectly.

So I think we can safely say that it wasn't a PCIe adapter problem this time.

I suggest there might a compatibility issue with Sierra on this computer.

However, I'm not going to investigate any further. I'm keeping this Yosemite install. Pro Tools 12 works like a charm now and I need to get back to recording and mixing music.

I might purchase a new Mac Pro in a year or two if Apple decides to release a new model, but I'm happy for now.

Thank you all for sharing your knowledge and experience in this thread!

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  #75  
Old 02-14-2018, 02:56 PM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
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Default Re: Is my MONSTER 12-core 3,33GHz Mac Pro underperforming on low buffer sizes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kroon View Post
UPDATE:

So I migrated Yosemite onto an SSD drive and put it into a SATA II connector in the optical bay. Recording in Pro Tools worked perfectly.

Then I tried connecting it to one of the PCIe adapters instead. Boot times were reduced from 110 to 45 seconds and I was able to measure higher read and write speeds. Apart from that I noticed no difference. Recording in Pro Tools still worked perfectly.

So I think we can safely say that it wasn't a PCIe adapter problem this time.

I suggest there might a compatibility issue with Sierra on this computer.

However, I'm not going to investigate any further. I'm keeping this Yosemite install. Pro Tools 12 works like a charm now and I need to get back to recording and mixing music.

I might purchase a new Mac Pro in a year or two if Apple decides to release a new model, but I'm happy for now.

Thank you all for sharing your knowledge and experience in this thread!

Congratulations on your success and keep us updated if you have further problems. As I understand it you're running PT12.8.1 on OSX 10.10.5 right? No compatibility issues? If so I might see my way to trying to get a PT12 license.
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  #76  
Old 02-14-2018, 03:35 PM
Kroon Kroon is offline
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Default Re: Is my MONSTER 12-core 3,33GHz Mac Pro underperforming on low buffer sizes?

Quote:
As I understand it you're running PT12.8.1 on OSX 10.10.5 right? No compatibility issues?
That's correct.

No compatibility issues so far. Everything seems stable.

Please note that I was advised to stay on Pro Tools 12.8.1, as there is allegedly a GUI lag issue starting with Pro Tools 12.8.2 on some of these older machines.
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  #77  
Old 02-15-2018, 03:49 AM
elicious elicious is offline
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Default Re: Is my MONSTER 12-core 3,33GHz Mac Pro underperforming on low buffer sizes?

Hi there Kroon, I wanted to chime in for you and maybe others;
as for several weeks I have been chasing down similar issues
with a similar machine.

Mine is a Westmere 3.46 12 core
originally running PT 10 HD on OS X 10.8.5
and then switching to an HDX running 12.4 HD on OS X 10.12.
And was getting streaming errors with the same dialogue you mentioned in your original post.
Like you, went through all the optimizations;
ended up upgrading to 10.12.6 and HD 2018.1
and was still getting stoppages.

Did multiple digitests with and without hardware and PCI cards,
also swapping of video cards;
put the playback engine into aggregate,
and played with "ignore errors" suppression enabled.
Found out there was specific issues with Phoenix Verb and AmpliTube 4.

Also found out there are PT performance issues for many Mac computers, typically 2010 to 2012 models.

(Also watched that very informative video-
CPU Performance vs. Real-Time Performance in Digital Audio Workstations;
mentioned earlier in the thread which should probably get a sticky around here!)

So what finally stopped the errors for me,
was going to Xcode Instruments and disabling hyperthreading,
which on a monster machine such as ours and with the HDX card
means it's still idling most of the time…

e
for the record studios
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Last edited by elicious; 02-15-2018 at 05:20 AM.
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  #78  
Old 02-15-2018, 01:56 PM
Kroon Kroon is offline
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Default Re: Is my MONSTER 12-core 3,33GHz Mac Pro underperforming on low buffer sizes?

Thank you, elicious, for that insight.

I might try disabling hyperthreading myself, out of curiosity, as I have heard of a few people now who've had success with that.

I'm glad you solved the problems with your system.
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  #79  
Old 02-15-2018, 02:57 PM
audiobob's Avatar
audiobob audiobob is online now
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Default Re: Is my MONSTER 12-core 3,33GHz Mac Pro underperforming on low buffer sizes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by elicious View Post

So what finally stopped the errors for me,
was going to Xcode Instruments and disabling hyperthreading,
which on a monster machine such as ours and with the HDX card
means it's still idling most of the time…
After months and months of chasing wind for answers on this topic, disabling hyperthreading is the only thing that helped. I say helped because I still received CPU errors, but they were less frequent.
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  #80  
Old 02-16-2018, 08:58 AM
mrguitarguy mrguitarguy is offline
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Default Re: Is my MONSTER 12-core 3,33GHz Mac Pro underperforming on low buffer sizes?

I’m encountering the same issue on a simliar machine (specs below) and PT HD Native as Kroon is his original post. I have two 2010 Mac Pro 5,1 machines (1 stock, 1 upgraded) and borh have had the same issue with graphics related glitches on PT 12.8.3 and 2018.1 on Sierra 12.12.6 when attempting to record 24 tracks.

Scrolling around or even viewing the drawing the waveforms for the tracks being recorded seems to make the CPU fluctuate drastically. Scrolling down where the waveforms are being drawn while recording are no longer visible or minimizing/hiding the edit window reduces the cpu fluctuations to almost zero.

At a buffer of 256 I can track with no issues and lots of plugins. At a buffer of 64 with no plugins any screen movement or waveform drawing (from the tracks being recorded) causes this issue, even at 44.1. It doesn’t seem to matter if the tracks have blank audio or are drawing typical waveforms from recording audio.

I also have the system drive on a Samsung 850 512gb SSD on an OWC pcie accelsior card.

I’ve tried both a stock Radeon 5770 and an Nvidia Quadro 4000 as my video card with the same results.

I have an old system HDD with Yosemite and PT 12.7.1 on it. I just tried it and while the mix window meters aren’t a fluid as they are on Sierra with 12.8.3 and 2018.1, the cpu spikes don’t occur unless I do a ridiculous amount of constantly scrolling around the edit window like a madman. Even then, they are nothing like they were on Sierra with the later versions of pro tools. I’m going to try 12.8.1 on this system and see if the meters run any smoother.

Has anyone tried 2018.1 with High Sierra? Do the same problems occur?


System specs:

Sierra 10.12.6
Pro Tools 2018.1 HD Native
2010 Mac Pro 5,1
3.46ghz 12 core
128gb RAM
Radeon 5770 (Also tried Nvidia Quadro 4000)


Second system:
Sierra 10.12.6
Pro Tools 2018.1 HD Native
2010 Mac Pro 5,1
2.4ghz 8 core
32gb RAM
Radeon 5770

All PT optimizations followed to the letter on both systems.
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