major Waves TLC warning

[Mark Dann]

Disclaimer: I love my Waves plugins, and this is not in any way a Waves bashing thread. And I would appreciate it if you restrain yourselves from hijacking this thread in that direction.

If you have the Waves Update Plan, for a period of one year you can download any new plugins that are added to your bundle, for free. And maybe another perk or two. We all knew that already, of course.

If you enroll in TLC, your permanent license is surrendered for a temporary license, which lasts 90 days. If your iLok is lost or stolen, Waves will issue you a replacement TLC license, as the one that was lost or stolen will expire anyway. I think this is the best system I have seen to deal with a lost or stolen iLok. I wish all companies did this.

TLC is available to all Waves users who are currently enrolled in WUP, and have at least six months left on their WUP before they START their enrollment. In other words, you can't enroll in TLC if you have LESS than six months remaining. But once enroll, you are good until WUP runs out. Then you renew WUP, and TLC continues. Viewed as the insurance policy that it is, it makes WUP a pretty good deal (along with the free plugins that come along now and then) Following this so far?

Okay, here's a scenario you probably didn't expect: If you download an update to your bundle, AND you are passed the six-month point in your WUP period, your TLC is cancelled. That's right, you have to choose between downloading an update, or whether or not you maintain TLC. Actually, you are not even informed that this will happen, no message ever appears that you are going to lose TLC. Not that being informed would make this any better, it would not. TLC is now gone, even though you have paid for WUP, and would still have TLC had you not downloaded a simple updater (6.0.8 to 6.0.9, in my case).

So: Waves offers TLC to it's users who have WUP, but take it away if you do even the most minor of updates, IF you are past six months of WUP. I don't see the slightest hint of logic here. I don't see any benefit to Waves, and I see a lot of potential to make customers rather angry. Imagine if your iLok is lost or stolen during month #8, and you lost TLC just because you did the 6.08 to 6.09 update. BTW, I had a long conversation with Waves tech support on the phone about this, so yes I am 100% sure about all of this. This is official policy.

I am not posting this to stir things up. I want to see what the reaction on the street is, so to speak, with the hopes that the Waves people will read it, and see what a bad policy this is.

I would prefer to think that the people who thought up TLC (which I consider to be a brilliant solution to an old problem) wouldn't consciously do this to their users. Perhaps they just didn't think this through?

Comments?

[Jeff E]

This is all about generating cash flow. Every company in the world is concerned with this issue in this economy. Many are resorting to methods such as these in order to bring in cash. Wrong or right, its how they want to proceed. In the end, everything they do will effect their consumer base as is true in most companies. I am sure that if there was a subscription service that would generate cash for a persons studio, we would be trying it. No one can work for free - not at least for very long. Microsoft was long been after a method of making their office software a per-use product..

[Mark Dann]

Originally Posted by Jeff E

This is all about generating cash flow. Every company in the world is concerned with this issue in this economy. Many are resorting to methods such as these in order to bring in cash. Wrong or right, its how they want to proceed. In the end, everything they do will effect their consumer base as is true in most companies. I am sure that if there was a subscription service that would generate cash for a persons studio, we would be trying it. No one can work for free - not at least for very long. Microsoft was long been after a method of making their office software a per-use product..

But I don't see how this policy could generate cash. TLC is free, and you already paid for WUP. All I can see this policy doing is making users afraid to download any and all Waves updates for fearing of losing TLC. That is neither constructive nor fair. It has zero benefit to Waves, as far as I can see. And the only way this could generate money is if the user decides to renew WUP early, and NOBODY is going to do that! I own two Mercury Bundles - am I going to pay $400. to go from 6.0.8 to 6.0.9?

BTW, in less than an hour after my phone call with them, the Waves people gave me my TCL back, even though I was "two weeks over" the six months limit. I commend them, as it was the professional thing to do. Waves tech support has always been great for me.

BUT, this issue (rather, potential issue) still remains. Must I decide between updates and losing TLC? What happens when 6.0.10, or 6.1, or 7.0 comes out? Or some new Mercury goodies? This silly and potentially financially disastrous policy needs to go.

[WildHoney]

Originally Posted by Mark Dann

But I don't see how this policy could generate cash. TLC is free, and you already paid for WUP. All I can see this policy doing is making users afraid to download any and all Waves updates for fearing of losing TLC. That is neither constructive nor fair. It has zero benefit to Waves, as far as I can see. And the only way this could generate money is if the user decides to renew WUP early, and NOBODY is going to do that! I own two Mercury Bundles - am I going to pay $400. to go from 6.0.8 to 6.0.9?

BTW, in less than an hour after my phone call with them, the Waves people gave me my TCL back, even though I was "two weeks over" the six months limit. I commend them, as it was the professional thing to do. Waves tech support has always been great for me.

BUT, this issue (rather, potential issue) still remains. Must I decide between updates and losing TLC? What happens when 6.0.10, or 6.1, or 7.0 comes out? Or some new Mercury goodies? This silly and potentially financially disastrous policy needs to go.

At the very least, if they're acknowledging that this is an explicit policy and not just an unintended byproduct of some shortcomings in this new TLC system they set up, then there should be a warning if you try to update a bundle that would negate your TLC. No reason why this wouldn't be possible as they require you to login to download anything from the site to start with. Anything other than that would smack of a little dishonesty. . . to me at least.

[MASTERLINKSTUDIOS]

So that's what happened to my tlc for my diamond bundle. My wup doesn't run out until October and I had tlc until doing update and now I know why. I hope waves fixes this in the future. Thanks for the heads up.

[Mark Dann]

TLC is an insurance policy. An insurance policy that costs Waves nothing, but protects the user from hundreds or thousands of dollars of potential loss. I wish ALL of my plugins had this kind of protection.

The way Waves makes money on this is by making WUP (and WUP renewal) a no-brainer. Prior to TLC, one could let their WUP expire, and only buy back into it if and when the user saw benefit in doing so, i.e., a major update that requires it, or the desire to get some bundle additions. But with TLC, it's a no-brainer. So offering TLC is a way for Waves to get users to WILLING buy into WUP, which has been a major bone of contention on the web for many years, as we all know well. BUT, to have TLC get derailed like this just because a user installs an update makes the WUP thing look silly again, and this can only cost Waves some WUP sales as word gets out. So aside from this policy of canceling TLC after six months being a very bad thing the end user, I believe it is also a very bad thing for Waves themselves.

Waves implies very clearly on their website that you need WUP to have TLC. And that TLC will remain active until WUP runs out. And that is how it should be, right?

[WildHoney]

Originally Posted by Mark Dann

TLC is an insurance policy. An insurance policy that costs Waves nothing, but protects the user from hundreds or thousands of dollars of potential loss. I wish ALL of my plugins had this kind of protection.

The way Waves makes money on this is by making WUP (and WUP renewal) a no-brainer. Prior to TLC, one could let their WUP expire, and only buy back into it if and when the user saw benefit in doing so, i.e., a major update that requires it, or the desire to get some bundle additions. But with TLC, it's a no-brainer. So offering TLC is a way for Waves to get users to WILLING buy into WUP, which has been a major bone of contention on the web for many years, as we all know well. BUT, to have TLC get derailed like this just because a user installs an update makes the WUP thing look silly again, and this can only cost Waves some WUP sales as word gets out. So aside from this policy of canceling TLC after six months being a very bad thing the end user, I believe it is also a very bad thing for Waves themselves.

Waves implies very clearly on their website that you need WUP to have TLC. And that TLC will remain active until WUP runs out. And that is how it should be, right?

Just confirmed that this vanishing TLC happened on my Platinum bundle as well. Contacted tech support and they corrected the problem within 24 hours. Not to say that it won't happen again if a necessary update comes out, but they did get me covered again.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by Mark Dann

I wish ALL of my plugins had this kind of protection.

I prefer the way Steve Massey or McDSP does it.

Ya buy the plug in.

Then you own the plug in.

[Media Man]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

I prefer the way Steve Massey or McDSP does it.

Ya buy the plug in.

Then you own the plug in.

Unless you bought a McDSP plug as part of a Digi "massive pack". Then, you have to buy it again to work with a PT or OS upgrade.

Mark

P.S. I'll have to look more closely into the Waves TLC deal. I bought a Platinum TDM bundle early this year that included WUP for one year, and I have not yet downloaded the free "new additions" to the bundle.

[Howardk]

I didn't read the whole thread. . . but my related thoughts are:

There was a time that I was planning to move away from Waves all together, due to their high WUP costs and related policies. At this time I believe Waves has come a long way in improving their approach to customer service in the last 3 years. I am now a fan and recently upgraded to Mercury TDM with the Studio Classic Collection.

TLC looks like a great offering, but I have not had a chance to enroll. . . Someone mentioned TLC does not cost Waves anything. . . I don't agree. Waves had to setup the system to provide this offering, and they do have administrative costs maintaining it as well as providing service for lost/stolen iLoks. TLC avoids insurance cost for us, so it has a direct $ benefit to the customer. To my knowledge no other company has this offering. Kudos to Waves! I would expect WUP accounts need to be current in order for TLC to work along with some sort of 6 month deadline requirement. . . maybe it is a little sticky, but if you update your WUP I suspect all is good. Right? I have also found Waves email support to be the best experience I have had with support related to computer recording software/hardware to date.

While we all love the McDSP free compatibility updates, many other companies have step update costs. Software Pluging companies do have costs related to keeping their product current with all the changes in DAWs/Platforms. Waves current WUP costs are fair, especially if you own a large bundle, and TLC is a bonus.

The other things I like about Waves products is that they are TDM/RTAS/AU and VST, so there are a lot of options in the software products you can use. . .(I use Waves with ProTools, WaveLab and Final Cut Pro, all the same license).

Just my opinion.