Please help me to get a basic drum loop to work.

[TheBaron]

Hello,
I'm trying to record a simple drum loop then duplicate it.
When I record the drums I play exactly (hopefully) on the click and grid (I'm set to grid mode)
Well, If the notes record on the grid (like they should be if you're on time) then I have trouble getting the first note of the loop to copy. Either it gets omitted (if I'm slightly ahead and select on the grid) or truncated/cut in half. How do you select the loop and get the first note to copy correctly. If I select a notch ahead on the grid, I risk overwriting the tail end of the loop. Certainly you don't have to play slightly behind the click to get it to work!

Also, Question 2 but related, Is there a way to copy and paste midi notes as "additive"? Meaning, if I copy and paste a snare hit, it won't overwrite the hi hat in the same area.

Thanks. Sorry for being so clueless. I hope these questions have simple answers...they seem like extremely basic 101 issues.

[spkguitar]

Hello,
I'm trying to record a simple drum loop then duplicate it.
When I record the drums I play exactly (hopefully) on the click and grid (I'm set to grid mode)
Well, If the notes record on the grid (like they should be if you're on time) then I have trouble getting the first note of the loop to copy.

Then it isn't recorded "to the grid".

Either it gets omitted (if I'm slightly ahead and select on the grid) or truncated/cut in half.

Again, that is an indication that it isn't "recorded to the grid".

How do you select the loop and get the first note to copy correctly. If I select a notch ahead on the grid, I risk overwriting the tail end of the loop. Certainly you don't have to play slightly behind the click to get it to work!

It sounds more like you are playing ahead of the click.

What exactly are you recording/looping? Audio or MIDI? It would be easier to help you if we knew that information.

What you need to do is select exactly the loop length you are trying to copy. If you are looping 4 beats, then you need to select exactly 4 beats for your loop. If you are anticipating the beat (which is sounds like you are), Then you need to select the beginning of the note, and then select exactly the loop length afterward. For instance, if you anticipate the beat by a 16th note (that's a very drastic example, but bear with me) and you are looping just one measure in 4/4 (4 beats) then the end of your selection should be 1/16th not shy of the measure marker. Then when you paste, you would paste it not on the beat, but 1/16 ahead of the beat (where the original falls). Understand?

Also, Question 2 but related, Is there a way to copy and paste midi notes as "additive"? Meaning, if I copy and paste a snare hit, it won't overwrite the hi hat in the same area.

alt + m when pasting the copy (instead of ctrl + v). That's the shortcut for Edit->Paste Special->Merge.

[TheBaron]

For starters thank you big time for the midi pasting tip! That's HUGE!

For the rest of it:
This is when recording midi. (but I would assume the same method would be used for audio)
For the sake of trouble shooting, I've physically drawn the first kick note onto the first grid line and still had a problem.
Assuming a measure in 4/4 with 4 beats, can I simply keep it in grid mode and select that measure (the first 4 pieces of the grid)? I feel like when I do that, the first note, even graphically, is half in front and half behind the grid (even if I manually snapped it to the grid). If that's the case do I have to take it out of grid mode to select the loop? (or change the grid to a smaller value to select ahead of the first beat like you mentioned?) I'm trying to just "control D" to duplicate a simple drum beat for a few minutes.

I'm staying in grid mode for recording and duplicating
I'm physically drawing the note onto the grid...at least until I figure this out.
I'm selecting the 4 beats (the first 4 "segments" that grid mode allows me to select)
Then I'm hitting Control D to duplicate it.

Am I missing something?

[spkguitar]

What version of Pro Tools are you using?

[TheBaron]

Pro tools 7.3 cs6
using a digi 002 rack

[spkguitar]

Have you tried copying in region view?

IIRC, there's a weird glitch in 7.3 when selecting MIDI data. (I'm not even sure it's been fixed in 7.4, but I haven't encountered it for awhile). You may also want to try typing in the selection, instead of using the mouse.

[TheBaron]

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll see what I can figure out and get back the post.

[DJ Decryption]

Baron,

Did you end up solving this problem? I've been having the same issue (only with the MIDI kick), and it happens exactly like you described. Even if the kick is created on the grid line (or copied directly from another instrument that does play in the loop), it won't copy correctly. Strangely, only the kick seems to do it.

I've also had an on-going issue where duplicating and/or looping audio regions produces a minuscule amount of drift - the smallest section of audio that I can select when zoomed in all the way in Slip mode. This happens to all audio sections, even when perfectly aligned to Grid and filling the full measure. I can see the drift of the repeated section in addition to hearing it, so I know it's happening. I posted previously about this, but the crazy thing is that sometimes the audio drift makes the loop shorter by the little section and sometimes it makes it longer by the little section, with no apparent consistency. I've tried all the things we're supposed to do (perfectly aligning to grid in Grid mode, creating sync points, etc.). It consistently makes my loops off, which has been very frustrating since I have to manually copy every section (which defeats the purpose of having a loop function). It does it when I use the Loop, Duplicate, or Repeat functions. If you had any luck with solutions, I'd be overjoyed to hear them.

Thanks!

[mano111]

Are you in relative or absolute grid mode?


This may be diffrent issue but I've seen a symilar thing happen on at least 2 systems (one windows, one Mac) using Video Option.
I would select a region in-out. Then when I hit play the in-out of my selection would snap to a 'frame' grid. Then if I hit copy or duplicate I would acctually be copying the un accurate selection.
I worked around this by selecting, NOT hitting play (so that the snap to grid wouldn't happen), and duplicate.

[DJ Decryption]

Thanks for your response Mano!

Unfortunately, the copy drift happens in both Absolute Grid and Relative Grid. I ensure that the region is exactly aligned to grid by separating it in Absolute Grid mode. If I manually copy it by Alt+dragging, it aligns fine. It's only when I use Duplicate, Repeat, or Loop that the drift occurs. The beginning of the looped region still starts on the grid line, but the end of it has either a tiny part missing or a tiny part over the next grid line... even though the original region is precise cut to the grid lines. The "tiny part" is always the smallest size you can select when completely zoomed in in Slip mode.

I'm still stumped... and manually looping every region...

Thanks for any more help anyone can offer!