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Old 07-04-2004, 12:59 PM
Eric Klinger Eric Klinger is offline
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Pittsburgh, PA - USA | Mons, Belgium
Posts: 250
Default Looking for real world experience before diving in

Hello All - This, being my first post, marks my first step into PT. Currently I am a Steinberg Nuendo user. It has served me well in the PC years. Recently I have switched to Mac, and although Nuendo runs OK (at best) for the Mac, I am in the market for some new inputs as my older MOTU 24i is in need of some updating. So, of course my first logical choice is being the Digi002 followed closely by MOTU 896. And, of course, since Digi002 comes with PT LE, I was hoping some of you could offer some real world track/plugs counts of what I am to expect which will ultimately serve as a great deal of the decision making as to whether or not I switch to PT. So I suppose I should first start off with what my initial intentions - along with some system specs...

I have two Macs... one in my "project studio" (for tracking) and one in my home (for mixing). I will be using a Western Digital Raptor 10,000rpm drive in an external sata case to go back and forth between the two machines which both have Seritek/1S2 SATA cards. Here are some quick specs...

Mac #1 - tracking
G4 Digital Audio with Sonnet 1.4 upgrade (733 originally)
80GB Seagate SATA connected to Seritek/1S2 for os
36GB West. Digital Raptor SATA in external case in port 2 of Seritek card
1.25GB pc 133 ram
fw800 card
ati 9000pro mac ed. video (128MB DDR)
osx 10.3.4

Mac #2 - mixing
G5 DP 1.8 (ver. 1 with pci-x)
2 x 160 GB Seagate SATA for os and file backup
1 x 36GB West. Dig in external case connected to port 1 of Seritek card
1.5 GB DDR400
everything else is standard

I can tell you what I get for track count under Nuendo... which is ok on my G4... but the graphics are insanely slow and lots of hiccups. It has driven me to the point of seeking alternatives as to recording apps. The need to upgrade my inputs have driven me to seek PT finally as a new way of life. The specs of my G4 tell me I should be getting better performance but at the same time, Steinberg is primarily a PC company. So at this point I look at PT and Logic to be the only logical choices.

Unfortunetly, where I am from (Pittsburgh, PA), it is rare to find anybody who has any type of recording setup outside of Cakewalk to find such info. Also, I have read all of the Digidesign materials available on the site... from what I understand, both of my machines fall well within minimum requirements... but that doesn't really mean anything to me as my G4 falls well within Nuendo specs as well. Obviouslly, my G5 is not a concern for me as I fell it will perform well under any app. so my biggest concern is my G4.

My initial thoughts are to purchase two digi002 rack units because I need a minimum of 12 live simultanious inputs to record (mostly) rock/metal bands. The majority of my projects go over the 32 track limit of PT LE, but I think I can manage to get it under because I am very used to just throwing little added things on extra tracks (vocal embelishments etc) that could more than likely be done on less tracks. So, with that in mind I am thinking 2 Digi002 hooked up to my G4 for tracking and then getting maybe an MBox to hook up to my G5 for mixing. Will this plan work?

I would like the ability to add plugs and pre-mix on my G4... so if you could PLEASE... what kind of performance can I expect on my G4? I need something smooth, responsive, and quick... stable of course, but I have no doubts there.

If you can, please offer up your opinions/experiences. Thank very much!!!

Eric Klinger
Mac: MBP Retina 15" Quad 2.2GHz i7 / 16GB / H. Sierra / PT 2018.7 / UAD-2 9.4
PC: HP Z620 2x Octo 2.9GHz Xeon / 64GB / Win 10 Pro / PT 2019.5 / UAD-2 9.6 / Apollo Thunderbolt
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Old 07-04-2004, 01:28 PM
rgriff rgriff is offline
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Hollywood Ca.
Posts: 374
Default Re: Looking for real world experience before diving in

You can have 18 inputs if you use a lightpipe 8 channel pre lke the Presonus Digimax LT,or Focusrite Octopre. The S/pdif will give you 2 more. I am not sure, but I dont think the 2 002 plan will work.
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Old 07-04-2004, 02:14 PM
Infa Infa is offline
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San Francisco, CA. U.S.A.
Posts: 1,023
Default Re: Looking for real world experience before diving in

Welcome,,, O.k.,,, you will have absolutely NO problems, NO hic-ups running PT LE on your G4 or G5. You will notice an extremely smoother, snappy, quick response useing PT compared to Nueindo.. Now on the other hand IF you can get by on 32 tracks, with a minimal amount of plug in power(lets say on a "full" 32 track session, your gunna be able to put on about 18-20 plug-ins)(if even that),PLUS your limited to 48kHz tops(Mbox)96kHz tops(digi 002),, then there is completely NO ISSUE... But I do know that Nueindo, Cubase, Preformer, ETC. offer you alot more track counts ,& higher sampling rates right off the bat with there "cheaper" systems... Thing is to me, them other systems #1 DON'T SOUND AS GOOD(not "industry standard" recording quality), and #2 Are just basically LAME to use(they're chokey, slow, and less compatible with many other studios across the globe).....
So you have these options to bounce back and forth... I always say "go ProTools" to everyone,, and I set-up ProTools studios for clients, & friends ALOT, so I know how to "steer" people in the right direction, and NO ONE has been unsatisfied yet !!!
So therfore MAY I SUGGEST THIS,,, you seem to be on the right track,,,, BUT are going to make a little costly(down the road) mistake. I noticed how you said you did everything, and on what you are working. NOW,, to me,, the problem with the decision to just go to PT LE is,,,, your about to spend money on getting a recording program that is just smoother running than the one you have, BUT literally has a few more limitations(except for the fact it WILL sound better!!) ,, So to me that isn't UPGRADING, as much as spending money for the same damn thing.... IF you are gunna spend any money at all, the best thing to do is save a little more and do it right, so you don't have to do it again(cause this is what I mean by "down the road" ,, EVERYONE always trys to do this, and thinks they are "saving" money by getting the lower end things of things,,, then later realize they NEED the better thing, then end up buying that(cause YOU WILL trust me), so then you have just bought TWO studios !!! a complete waste of money),, so I would SKIP PT LE and the Mbox, and the 002, and either get HD, or find a GOOD "Mix Plus" system on ebay or something, and run Pro Tools 6.4 on Mac OS 10.3.4. You will then find you have UPGRADED, and NO other platform is better in ANY WAY than that, and you will be facing absolutely NO LIMITATIONS,and the ability to run at 192(HD) and over a hundred tracks!!, and my friend you will be happy you did it........ BUT I know what your about to say, and I'm getting there... Now this is gunna be hard to get you to see ,, 'cause I know how people are when they get "in their ways" and all,, but,,, I know,, your thinking,,, #1- I can't get 2 HD or Mix systems,('cause of how your recording in one place and mixing at the other) too much money... #2 - My older G4 wont run HD or the big Mix Plus systems correctly... and #3 even if it all did, I don't have the dough for all this.... Well I do this alot,, so after hearing you for a second, and seeing what/how your doing things,, this is what I see how YOUR limiting yourself into these binds... For whatever reason your doing it,, having two places to do what is considered one thing is KILLING YOU, and wasting what could be a great upgrade to a powerful studio.But I know is great IF YOU CAN do it, if money isn't a issue, but if you were running Nueindo, and even thinking about an Mbox,,, then my friend,,, money is obviously an issue...... SO ,, I would suggest selling your older G4 for some of this money you'll need, consolidating down to ONE studio that uses your G5,, selling any other piece you either don't use, or won't be useing after this upgrade( Nueindo, it's interface, ETC.)... Then getting Pro Tools HD 3 Accel. Install it on your G5 with OS 10.3.4.. Get a few cool ass plug-ins,,, and you will be VERY HAPPY trust me,, and you will completly forget about Nueindo,, trust me... Now you have everything in one comfortable place( I know two places is cool, and for what ever reason you had to do it,, I know,, but you have to make some changes, and sacraficing to get some of the BETTER things you want),, and that is how I'd do it.. You could probably get the money real easy, cause you'd be able to sell alot of the stuff from ONE of your set-ups (just keep the best stuff for yourself)... See the two studios is "spreading yourself too thin" in a situation like this.. You could benifit ALOT more by following my suggestions... If you want to talk more in detail about this, feel free to call me, I give free consulation all day long (415)334-8742 ...... But if you want me to come to your place and set you up all tight,,, that'll cost a little my friend........ Good Luck,,,,,,,,,,,,, and think about it...............
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Old 07-05-2004, 01:25 AM
JFreak's Avatar
JFreak JFreak is online now
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Tampere, Finland
Posts: 17,475
Default Re: Looking for real world experience before divin

you cannot have two LE systems at once, protools requires one interface (minimum and maximum). so take a 002(R?) and put in a 8-channel preamp through adat lightpipe, and you will have 16 inputs (plus one spdif i/o). for example a presonus digimax lt which i believe sells under 800usd, and you can find used units for less.

i have a 1.25GHz powerbook connected to 002R. the laptop has 1GB ram and internal 7200rpm hard drive. i also have a lacie firewire drive as an audio drive in the same fw400 buss than the 002R. i use an external reverb unit via spdif i/o.

i do mostly live foh mixing, feeding the crowd a stereo mix and additionally monitor mixes (one stereo for wireless, up to 4 mono for regular monitors). so i need to have hardware buffer set at 256 samples, giving a 6ms latency. 512 samples would introduce too much latency.

anyway, i always need all the 16 inputs i have. no problem there. i can also put in all the dynamics plugs i ever need, and the cpu load still stays in about 60%. below 75% anyway. i can also put in a fair amount of other plugs that i need, but as i do live and cannot afford any hiccups, i need to spare a little reserve for the unexpected - so i will not let the cpu load rise above 75%.

using 10.3.4 and 6.4, and have found that this is the most responsive combination ever. and reliable too.

was this helpful? i'd guess your desktops outperform my laptop. i just need the mobility.
What we do in life, echoes in eternity.
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