hardware in pro tools

[ToneSetter]

When using a hardware compressor in pro tools as an insert I need to send it out the same channel it is going to back in of my interface? For example, connect output 3 of my scarlett 18i20 to the input of the kt76 then the output of the kt76 into input 3 of the 18i20 then in pro tools go to the insert of the channel I want the compressor on and select io then select 3

[ToneSetter]

The reason I'm asking is if that is the only way pro tools will let you use hardware as inserts and outputs for channels 1 and 2 on an interface are always used for monitors or to go to a monitor controller, how do I use inputs 1 and 2 if I obviously can't go out 1 and 2 because of monitors?

[cwsand]

Doesn't the Scarlett have 10 line outs? Seems like you should be able set up the routing in your I/O Setup in Pro Tools so that Outs 3/4 correspond with Ins 1/2, etc.

[ToneSetter]

Originally Posted by cwsand

Doesn't the Scarlett have 10 line outs? Seems like you should be able set up the routing in your I/O Setup in Pro Tools so that Outs 3/4 correspond with Ins 1/2, etc.

Yes it does have 10 outs and 8 ins but I thought you had to go out the same number you're going back in. Are you saying I can set it up somehow to go out channel 3 and back in channel 1 (or any other channel) for a mono signal and if so how do I go about getting that set up? Thanks for the reply and any help you can offer!

[albee1952]

You need to set up INSERTS in the IO setup page>Inserts tab. On that matrix(the grid and dots), you set up matched pairs of IO, like Output 6/Input 6, Output 7/Input 7. Having said that, There are 2 things you may want to consider here:
#1-using hardware inserts MAY cause latency mis-alignment(something you need to be aware of, and you may need to compensate for, manually on that same Inserts tab of IO setup)
#2-this may not improve your mixes at all

I am dead serious on this and have been in the exact same position as you are now. I sold my studio last year and now just operate a mix suite, but while I had that studio, it was a pretty serious setup with HD/Native and 64 IO(2x HD IO and 2x 192 IO). It also had a 96 point TT patchbay with 40 racked preamps(Midas, Focusrite, Vintech, API, Miktek, etc) and several channels of external compressors and some EQ's. I went thru all the configuration so that I could use 8 hardware inserts while mixing. I tested and compared and it all worked flawlessly. Now, guess how many times(over 3 years of commercial recording) that I used a hardware insert while mixing? Not once I used the outboard during recording a lot, but in every single case, I could find a plugin that would match or beat hardware every time, without any of the hassle of routing and latency compensation. Get things sounding good on the way in and skip hardware while mixing. The money you spend on patchbay and all the cables to go with it, will buy plenty of plugins to make great mixes.

My 2 cents, but if your external hardware is anything "average"(think Warm Audio, DBX or any hardware that costs less than $1K), plugins can do a better(or at least equal) job. I spent days comparing my LA-2A clones and Pultec EQ clones and the hardware simply was no better in any way. There's not a single time when mixing needed hardware. Using these hardware boxes
and comparing to stuff like the Waves Puigtec EQ, Waves CLA-2A plugins, I always was able to match or beat the hardware. Don't let your eyes fool you that something sounds better because its got real knobs

The cost of the patchbay and cables topped $1K and that money would buy one of many great mics or preamps, which actually WILL make better recordings. We often THINK something is great because so and so uses it, or because some youtube video shows it. I love the new affordable hardware(KT, Warm, etc) but there are probably a dozen 1176 plugins that will match or beat your KT during a mix

Spend your dollars on stuff that WILL make things better(think about acoustic treatments, a great vocal mic or a great preamp). Just an opinion

[ToneSetter]

Originally Posted by albee1952

You need to set up INSERTS in the IO setup page>Inserts tab. On that matrix(the grid and dots), you set up matched pairs of IO, like Output 6/Input 6, Output 7/Input 7. Having said that, There are 2 things you may want to consider here:
#1-using hardware inserts MAY cause latency mis-alignment(something you need to be aware of, and you may need to compensate for, manually on that same Inserts tab of IO setup)
#2-this may not improve your mixes at all

I am dead serious on this and have been in the exact same position as you are now. I sold my studio last year and now just operate a mix suite, but while I had that studio, it was a pretty serious setup with HD/Native and 64 IO(2x HD IO and 2x 192 IO). It also had a 96 point TT patchbay with 40 racked preamps(Midas, Focusrite, Vintech, API, Miktek, etc) and several channels of external compressors and some EQ's. I went thru all the configuration so that I could use 8 hardware inserts while mixing. I tested and compared and it all worked flawlessly. Now, guess how many times(over 3 years of commercial recording) that I used a hardware insert while mixing? Not once I used the outboard during recording a lot, but in every single case, I could find a plugin that would match or beat hardware every time, without any of the hassle of routing and latency compensation. Get things sounding good on the way in and skip hardware while mixing. The money you spend on patchbay and all the cables to go with it, will buy plenty of plugins to make great mixes.

My 2 cents, but if your external hardware is anything "average"(think Warm Audio, DBX or any hardware that costs less than $1K), plugins can do a better(or at least equal) job. I spent days comparing my LA-2A clones and Pultec EQ clones and the hardware simply was no better in any way. There's not a single time when mixing needed hardware. Using these hardware boxes
and comparing to stuff like the Waves Puigtec EQ, Waves CLA-2A plugins, I always was able to match or beat the hardware. Don't let your eyes fool you that something sounds better because its got real knobs

The cost of the patchbay and cables topped $1K and that money would buy one of many great mics or preamps, which actually WILL make better recordings. We often THINK something is great because so and so uses it, or because some youtube video shows it. I love the new affordable hardware(KT, Warm, etc) but there are probably a dozen 1176 plugins that will match or beat your KT during a mix

Spend your dollars on stuff that WILL make things better(think about acoustic treatments, a great vocal mic or a great preamp). Just an opinion

I did buy a few new pieces (wa73eq, 76kt, kt2a) to create a sort of desert island vocal chain for tracking but then thought I should maybe figure out how to use them in pro tools while mixing to get even more use out of them so I bought a samson s patch so I'd be able to change ins and outs easily then thought I should probably get a couple more pieces if I'm going to try to get into hybrid since I do have a lot more patch points. So I got the wa12 an isa one and a dbx 160a. Next I was thinking about getting 2 eqpwa's and the wa bus comp but if you're saying it's probably not worth it to hybrid mix with the quality of plugins these days I'll probably stay away from those pieces that I was only going to be using on my mix bus. I think I will take your advice and just invest in more pres and mics instead of more compressors and eq's for hybrid mixing. Since I have the scarlett 18i20 which only has 8 ins is it still a good idea to have a patchbay for when I have more pres than usable inputs. I don't like pulling my desk out and crawling behind it to mess with cables

[albee1952]

Originally Posted by ToneSetter

I did buy a few new pieces (wa73eq, 76kt, kt2a) to create a sort of desert island vocal chain for tracking but then thought I should maybe figure out how to use them in pro tools while mixing to get even more use out of them so I bought a samson s patch so I'd be able to change ins and outs easily then thought I should probably get a couple more pieces if I'm going to try to get into hybrid since I do have a lot more patch points. So I got the wa12 an isa one and a dbx 160a. Next I was thinking about getting 2 eqpwa's and the wa bus comp but if you're saying it's probably not worth it to hybrid mix with the quality of plugins these days I'll probably stay away from those pieces that I was only going to be using on my mix bus. I think I will take your advice and just invest in more pres and mics instead of more compressors and eq's for hybrid mixing. Since I have the scarlett 18i20 which only has 8 ins is it still a good idea to have a patchbay for when I have more pres than usable inputs. I don't like pulling my desk out and crawling behind it to mess with cables

Indeed! I like and have used most everything you mentioned, but I only use those on the way in, while mixing stays totally in the box. The one piece I would skip(if not purchased already) is the bus compressor. For me, the Waves SSL comp and Slate Distressor handle bus compression nicely(and with zero latency so I can track with those plugins in place. The 160A is probably not a piece I would use, but the WA-2A is a damn nice piece for tracking vocal or bass. My preference is(was) to buy everything in pairs, in case I wanted to track in stereo, or dual-mono. For example, I track vocals with 2 tracks(one being muted) with 2 mics(a tube and an FET) thru a pair of API312(like your WA12) and WA-2A compressors. Most electric guitars are done with a ribbon and a Shure SM-7 thru a pair of Neve 1081 clones. You're off to a good start but things will get a lot better once you up your hardware to have more live inputs, but I did lots of bands with my trusty 003, Focusrite ISA428 and a Midas XL48(killer on drums and came in on lightpipe). Options are a good thing

[ToneSetter]

Originally Posted by albee1952

Indeed! I like and have used most everything you mentioned, but I only use those on the way in, while mixing stays totally in the box. The one piece I would skip(if not purchased already) is the bus compressor. For me, the Waves SSL comp and Slate Distressor handle bus compression nicely(and with zero latency so I can track with those plugins in place. The 160A is probably not a piece I would use, but the WA-2A is a damn nice piece for tracking vocal or bass. My preference is(was) to buy everything in pairs, in case I wanted to track in stereo, or dual-mono. For example, I track vocals with 2 tracks(one being muted) with 2 mics(a tube and an FET) thru a pair of API312(like your WA12) and WA-2A compressors. Most electric guitars are done with a ribbon and a Shure SM-7 thru a pair of Neve 1081 clones. You're off to a good start but things will get a lot better once you up your hardware to have more live inputs, but I did lots of bands with my trusty 003, Focusrite ISA428 and a Midas XL48(killer on drums and came in on lightpipe). Options are a good thing

Yea like I was saying I think I'm going to take your advice and keep the mixes in the box and just get more pres and mics for tracking rap vocals which is all I do as of now (my tracking room/booth is only 6x9ft which I feel is too small for drums). I didn't buy the eqpwa's or the wa bus compressor yet and I'm not going to (thanks to your advice) but I have already bought the dbx160a because I've heard it's pretty nice with rap vocals. Also I have the kt2a not the wa2a. The mic I have as of now is the akg c214. I had the bluebird and nt1a but didn't like them as much as the c214 so I sold them. What are some mics and pres you would recommend? I think the next thing I'm going to buy is the Neumann TLM 102.

[albee1952]

I would skip the 102. Take a look at the Miktek C7. Keb Mo tried one when he was mostly done with his last release and liked it so much that he re-recorded all the vocals with it I'm partial to the API312(or clones of it) for vocals. Just go gentle on the hardware compression. You can always add more in the mix, but if its over-cooked on the way in, it will always be over-cooked. When you mix, don't be afraid to use more than 1 compressor plugin. My vocal plugin chain is as follows:
A-empty(for Melodyne)
B-EQ III 7 band(mostly just for hi-pass)
C-Waves CLA-76
D-SMACK!(Avid's version of the LA-2A)
E-Waves Puigtech for "air"(any Pultec-type plugin will work, Waves is my fave)
F-Waves F6(only if needed)
G-Waves R-DeEss(only if needed)

If you do get a C7(or any multi-pattern mic), experiment with the figure 8 pattern(only if your room has proper acoustic treatments). You might be surprised

[ToneSetter]

Originally Posted by albee1952

I would skip the 102. Take a look at the Miktek C7. Keb Mo tried one when he was mostly done with his last release and liked it so much that he re-recorded all the vocals with it I'm partial to the API312(or clones of it) for vocals. Just go gentle on the hardware compression. You can always add more in the mix, but if its over-cooked on the way in, it will always be over-cooked. When you mix, don't be afraid to use more than 1 compressor plugin. My vocal plugin chain is as follows:
A-empty(for Melodyne)
B-EQ III 7 band(mostly just for hi-pass)
C-Waves CLA-76
D-SMACK!(Avid's version of the LA-2A)
E-Waves Puigtech for "air"(any Pultec-type plugin will work, Waves is my fave)
F-Waves F6(only if needed)
G-Waves R-DeEss(only if needed)

If you do get a C7(or any multi-pattern mic), experiment with the figure 8 pattern(only if your room has proper acoustic treatments). You might be surprised

I'm going to look into the Miktek C7 for sure. Any other mics or preamps besides the wa12, wa73 and isa one that you would recommend? My current vocal chain is almost the same as yours.

A-Autotune (if needed or wanted for t-pain type effect)
B-Fabfilter Pro Q3 (for notch cuts and high pass)
C-Waves CLA-76
D-Waves CLA-2A
E-Fabfilter Pro Q3 (for boosting mid highs and top end air) gonna try out Waves Puigtech as you do here
F-Fabfilter Pro DS

I sometimes deess before compression too