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  #11  
Old 05-29-2019, 08:01 AM
its2loud its2loud is offline
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Default Re: 5.1 file channel order

Thanks Randall. But I think we are specifically talking about Exporting multichannel interleaved files. Not bouncing. We haven’t gotten there yet.
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  #12  
Old 05-29-2019, 09:36 AM
Frank Kruse Frank Kruse is offline
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Default Re: 5.1 file channel order

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulo m View Post
Everytime I export a multichannel interleaved file from PT, the channel order is Film, regardless if I have created a SMPTE path. I import the exported file in Wave Agent and can confirm that. I re-map the channel order to SMPTE and export and get the channels ordered as I wish. The same in QT.
Sorry, can't confirm. When exporting using command-shift-K as interleaved the result will always be SMPTE/ITU order (L R C SUB Ls Rs etc.)
It's been like this for a couple of years. I've just exported a ton of sounds and they are all SMPTE (not film) regardless of any path order settings in the I/O setup.

F.
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  #13  
Old 05-29-2019, 02:36 PM
smurfyou smurfyou is offline
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Default Re: 5.1 file channel order

This does feel like rehashing.

PT exports SMPTE order files every time I do it. As I stated in that older thread I believe the change was in PT11 but it was not documented (or not that I ever saw).

Avid should really clarify this for users.
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  #14  
Old 05-30-2019, 07:19 AM
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paulo m paulo m is offline
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Default Re: 5.1 file channel order

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Originally Posted by its2loud View Post
No offense taken. I know what I tested and others have confirmed. However, I have not tested in 2019.5. Therefore, I will happily run some tests and report back what I find. It would be good to get to the bottom of this and have Avid change the documentation if needed.

For the record, I don’t think changing the output or bussing path order has any effect whatsoever on the interleaved channel order that ProTools exports.

Also, just so we are clear. When you say “export” are you talking about the type of file Pro Tools exports from Export Selected menu as shown in this picture? Or are you simply taking a printed interleaved file that was recorded on a 5.1 track directly out of the Audio Files folder? If it’s the latter then this would definitely only be a FILM order. Just trying to rule out discrepancies.
OK, just to clarify (based on my personnal experience only):

1-Setting up a multichannel SMPTE order path on I/O in Output tab, automatically creates a Film order Bus in Busses tab. Because of this, which doesn´t make sense for me and to avoid confusion, I decided to work in Film mode within PT.

2-The output path, doesn´t affect any Export or Bounce, it´s just for monitoring purposes. I said you can change the order there (physical outs) in case your monitoring path needs SMPTE order. In our case, and due to our particular speaker setup, our speakers are wired in AES/EBU through a MTRX unit and we need the Center channel to go on the same AES/EBU pair as the Lfe. As this is not possible in Film mode as it starts with L,C etc, I change the path order in the MTRX matrix, isntead of doing it in I/O setup/Output.

3-When I mentioned Export, yes, it´s through that menu shown on your pic, by either clicking/Cmd/Shif/K or selecting the clips in Clip list and Export Clips as Files. If I print a 5.1 track in Film order, exporting the resulting clip after Consolidating if I did any punch-ins/outs will export the interleaved file in Film order (obviously).

4-If I split to mono the above printed interleaved track, re-order to SMPTE and Export the resultant selected clips as an interleaved file, I get Film order on the exported file again. So I just export as mono files and re-map on another app, before sending to the client.

5-Bounce. Online or Offline. If I do the same split to mono as above, re-order the tracks to SMPTE, select and choose Bounce to Disk or to QT, I get Film order again.

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  #15  
Old 05-30-2019, 08:01 AM
Pete Gates Pete Gates is offline
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Default Re: 5.1 file channel order

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Originally Posted by paulo m View Post
3-When I mentioned Export, yes, it´s through that menu shown on your pic, by either clicking/Cmd/Shif/K or selecting the clips in Clip list and Export Clips as Files. If I print a 5.1 track in Film order, exporting the resulting clip after Consolidating if I did any punch-ins/outs will export the interleaved file in Film order (obviously).
Right... starting to see what's happening here. You're not printing the track in Film order - Pro Tools internal buses are in film order but the file I/O "prints" the WAV file in SMPTE order on disk. Just triple-checked this on PT Ultimate 2019.5 and it's still the case. So you're later re-ordering something that's correct in the first place.

Pete
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  #16  
Old 05-30-2019, 08:19 PM
its2loud its2loud is offline
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Default Re: 5.1 file channel order

Hoping to finally put this to rest as I have once again confirmed that for the first 6 channels of poly wav file, Pro Tools records and exports in SMPTE order.

As you can see from the attached picture. In blue are two clips on the 5.1 tracks. On the left is one recorded to track from the below clips, panned accordingly. The one on the right is a consolidated clip from the below clips copied and pasted on the 5.1 track.

Both clips on the 5.1 track were exported using Command+Shift+K. WAV Interleaved was selected on export.

These clips were then imported into WaveAgent and checked for channel order. WaveAgent ignores the Pro Tools Metadata info regarding channel config and simply imports the channels in the numeric order that were created in. 1 2 3 4 5 6 as seen in the pic from top to bottom.

The poly wav was then split in WaveAgent and exported as individual mono files. WaveAgent does NOT reorder anything from the original file. These mono files were then imported into Pro Tools and placed on individual tracks in the sequential order from top to bottom. You can see these as the red clips in the image. As you can see, with nothing re-arranged on export or import that Pro Tools indeed exports the first 6 tracks of a poly wav in "SMPTE" order.

For the record, the order does not change whether you use "Export" or just use the recorded file from the Audio Files folder in the session.
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File Type: jpg SMPTE order Pro Tools export.jpg (80.1 KB, 0 views)
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  #17  
Old 05-31-2019, 02:37 AM
Frank Kruse Frank Kruse is offline
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Default Re: 5.1 file channel order

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulo m View Post
t.

3-When I mentioned Export, yes, it´s through that menu shown on your pic, by either clicking/Cmd/Shif/K or selecting the clips in Clip list and Export Clips as Files. If I print a 5.1 track in Film order, exporting the resulting clip after Consolidating if I did any punch-ins/outs will export the interleaved file in Film order (obviously).
Something must we weird in your workflow. ProTools does **not** export film-order BWAVs. They are **always** SMPTE/ITU order. Unless I'm misunderstanding what you wrote.
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  #18  
Old 06-01-2019, 05:03 PM
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paulo m paulo m is offline
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Default Re: 5.1 file channel order

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Originally Posted by Frank Kruse View Post
Something must we weird in your workflow. ProTools does **not** export film-order BWAVs. They are **always** SMPTE/ITU order. Unless I'm misunderstanding what you wrote.
Well, there´s nothing weird in my workflow, I have a multichannel 5.1/7.1 Film order output set in Output tab in I/O settings just for monitoring purposes and a corresponding PT auto-created 5.1/7.1 Bus in Film Order as well. I print a 5.1/7.1 track, resulting from my mix and all necessary punchin/punchouts. That track is fed from the 5.1/7.1 bus which is set to Film Order. Consolidate the clip on the track. I get an interleaved 5.1/7.1 in Film Order. I can export it or pick it up at the audio files folder from the session. Then I can import it on some other app if I want to re-map to SMPTE. If I drop that same audio file on PT timeline, it sees it as an interleaved Film order file. If I do a re-map to SMPTE and drop in PT timeline, I can see an SMPTE channel order file.

What´s weird here?
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  #19  
Old 06-02-2019, 04:32 PM
tom_lowe tom_lowe is offline
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Default Re: 5.1 file channel order

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulo m View Post
Well, there´s nothing weird in my workflow, I have a multichannel 5.1/7.1 Film order output set in Output tab in I/O settings just for monitoring purposes and a corresponding PT auto-created 5.1/7.1 Bus in Film Order as well. I print a 5.1/7.1 track, resulting from my mix and all necessary punchin/punchouts. That track is fed from the 5.1/7.1 bus which is set to Film Order. Consolidate the clip on the track. I get an interleaved 5.1/7.1 in Film Order. I can export it or pick it up at the audio files folder from the session. Then I can import it on some other app if I want to re-map to SMPTE. If I drop that same audio file on PT timeline, it sees it as an interleaved Film order file. If I do a re-map to SMPTE and drop in PT timeline, I can see an SMPTE channel order file.

What´s weird here?
It exports SMPTE order, but Pro Tools will interpret this and put it to Film order when you re-import it.

Open it in Audition or another piece of software and you’ll see its SMPTE order.
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  #20  
Old 06-03-2019, 07:13 AM
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paulo m paulo m is offline
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Default Re: 5.1 file channel order

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Originally Posted by tom_lowe View Post
It exports SMPTE order, but Pro Tools will interpret this and put it to Film order when you re-import it.

Open it in Audition or another piece of software and you’ll see its SMPTE order.
That´s weird because when I drop a SMPTE order on PT it displays SMPTE.

Maybe it´s not reading metadata as should. I´ll give it another try.
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