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  #1  
Old 11-18-2008, 02:04 AM
Matt Darcy Matt Darcy is offline
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Default Pro-Tools Doing full band live recordings

I'm looking into using my Rack 003 with 2 Octorpe LE 8 input (4 in use and 8 in use - making 16 input with the 003) to do some live recording of a full band.

The question is would/should I create the work flow.

eg:

micup the kit, put the kit into the desk for PA control, then put the out of the desk into the 003 - in that case I'd need to find a desk that has 1 to 1 input to output mapping so I can have each input on the desk, going into each input on the rack 003.

Or should I mic up the kit, put it intot he 003, then put the output of the 003 into the desk for pa control, as the rack 003 doesn't have 1 in 1 out mapping, I'd have to use the output to go to the desk then use the pro-tools software to control the levels.

How would you best achieve this ?
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Old 11-18-2008, 05:27 AM
therecordinghouse therecordinghouse is offline
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Default Re: Pro-Tools Doing full band live recordings

the proper way to do this is to use a transformer balanced mic splitter and split your mic signals to the PA and the recording rig giving everyone complete and individual control. you can probably rent one for a decent price for a day.


then "work with what you got" way would be to run all mic signals to the octopre's first. then split out one octo via adat into the 003, analog into the PA console line inputs. (keep your trim (gain) down on the PA board)

next, you will need to split the analog signal coming out of the second octopre somehow. essetially a "Y" cable that is TRS to TRS/TRS.


hope this helps
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  #3  
Old 11-18-2008, 05:32 AM
therecordinghouse therecordinghouse is offline
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Default Re: Pro-Tools Doing full band live recordings

"Y" cable

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CYS105
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  #4  
Old 11-18-2008, 05:57 AM
Matt Darcy Matt Darcy is offline
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Default Re: Pro-Tools Doing full band live recordings

ok,

I get what your saying, I'll check out the more proper first way.

What interests me about the "work with what you've got" way is the octs.

I've got a rack 003 providing inputs 1-4, 4 inputs of the Oct 01 acting as the pre-amp for jack inputs 5-8, and then 8 inputs of Oct 02 acting as the other 8 inputs via adat (16 inputs in total).

If I'm using all 16, or say 12 of the 16, that means both Octs are in use, so I don't see how I could re-send back out to the desk.
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Old 11-18-2008, 07:26 AM
albee1952 albee1952 is offline
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Default Re: Pro-Tools Doing full band live recordings

The OctoPre inputs get routed to both the lightpipe AND the analog outputs so you can use both(on the one you are patching via lightpipe) so those analog outputs can continue on to the PA console. You may have some other options as well. If the PA console has inserts on the channels, you can often tap the pre-EQ signal from the insert jack. Many consoles have direct outputs on each channel as well. Also(this will sound like a curveball so think about it) you don't have to patch inputs 1 for 1(bass drum might be channel 1 on the PA but can be any number going into protools) so you could patch 8 channels using the lightpipe Octopre(with the analog outputs feeding those signals to the PA) and then run seperate microphones from the stage for some stuff(maybe the PA uses an SM57 on guitar but you could use a nice ribbon or condenser for recording). Once you get your head around all the possibilities, you'll find lots of options.
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  #6  
Old 11-18-2008, 07:29 AM
therecordinghouse therecordinghouse is offline
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Default Re: Pro-Tools Doing full band live recordings

forget about using the 003 mic amps. use all 16ch of focusrite. analog inputs 1-4 have line inputs as well as mic inputs.
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Old 11-18-2008, 07:39 AM
1ace1 1ace1 is offline
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Default Re: Pro-Tools Doing full band live recordings

This is something I do often. It is best to use either the mic splitters as sugested (EMO systems do a good passive mic splitter but this does attenuate the output level slightly once the signal has been split) or to use a desk with direct outs that happen post gain (after the gain pot) but pre-fade (Before the fader or any EQ or any Ins/Snd/Rtn) (such as the spirit ghost).

I would avoid running the signal through protools and monitoring at the output stage for the live FOH mix.

Is it actually a gig that you are recording or the band playing together in a studio?

This would change the techniques I would use.

A:)
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Old 11-18-2008, 11:41 AM
Carl Kolchak Carl Kolchak is offline
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Default Re: Pro-Tools Doing full band live recordings

One thing to look out for, if you end up using pre-fader direct outs from the mixing desk, is that some Front Of House engineers like to keep all the faders at the unity position, and instead ride the gain pots during the performance.

This can obviously kill your recording, so you may need to get handy with the Audio Suite gain plug and sectionally normalise the files after the fact in the worst case scenario (assuming you've left yourself ample headroom incase things go the other way).
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  #9  
Old 11-19-2008, 08:57 AM
psycho_monkey psycho_monkey is offline
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Default Re: Pro-Tools Doing full band live recordings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Kolchak View Post
One thing to look out for, if you end up using pre-fader direct outs from the mixing desk, is that some Front Of House engineers like to keep all the faders at the unity position, and instead ride the gain pots during the performance.

This can obviously kill your recording, so you may need to get handy with the Audio Suite gain plug and sectionally normalise the files after the fact in the worst case scenario (assuming you've left yourself ample headroom incase things go the other way).
that's just bad practice - I wouldn't hire any engineer who did this! what's going to happen to their gain structure then? compressors/gates? there's a reason the gain pot is universally the furthest from the engineer, and the faders the closest.

Setting the faders at unity, using the gain pots at the top to get a healthy level into each channel (even to the point of getting an initial balance), then doing the rides from the faders is fine. Doing what you describe is poor practice (I know you're not recommending this, it's not a go at you!).

At any rate though, any EQ/dynamics changes from the live engineer are likely to affect the recording unless the direct outs are immediately post gain pot.

Running through PT is a very bad idea - should there be a PT crash, your live show is gone. That's before you consider latency.

+1 on the splitters. Only way to do things properly.
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  #10  
Old 11-20-2008, 05:02 AM
1ace1 1ace1 is offline
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Default Re: Pro-Tools Doing full band live recordings

In agree with Psycho Monkey on that one! Never adjust the gain structure once set. V bad practice.

A:)
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