TDM support in Pro Tools 11 petition.

[Emcha_audio]

Originally Posted by rockridge

To Avid's advantage, it might get some of those 100,000 TDM user's to move PT 11.
They need them don't they?

Give user's the choice by making a plugin/shell available... make it easy.

I understand where you're coming from with it I'm just not understanding the coding enough if it is possible or not. It could be a great asset if it was possible, and if they were able to make it stable. But at the same time, would they need the consent of the other manufacturers to be able to do it, I don't know if FXpansion had to go through hoops to do what they did with the VST RTAS, not too sure what the implication might be for Avid to do it themselves.

[YYR123]

And Obama won the debate -!!!!

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by Marsdy

Thanks for the correction.....

Which begs the question... If a 24 bit fixed point TDM plug-in can operate in a 32 bit Pro Tools then why wouldn't it work in a 64 bit version? Like I said, surely the code running on the TDM card doesn't NEED to be 64 bit and therefore doesn't need to be re-written for a 64 bit version of PT with the exception of the front end/GUI?

The Motorola 56k DSPs on the old HD cards are working with 24 bit data, that is what people are usually referring to when they talk about these being 24 bit DSPs. The 56k chips can use 24 bit addressing with different complex addressing modes, and have different possible address bus widths... whether the DSPs on the HD cards use a 16, 18 or 22 bit wide physical address bus I don't know.

But anyhow none of this has anything to do with 32 or 64 bit memory addressing to/from the host memory and applciation. The cards will have separate glue logic for handling main memory addressing, and there may be some DMA support involved (and just to confuse things the '321 chips at least have internal DMA to on-chip or on-PCI/PCIe board memory (I dont' think the earlier Presto chips did but can't recall/find a data sheet)). But again this is all different memory than the main host memory

I doubt that when these card designed back in the dark ages, even the PCIe revision, they were ever intended to work with a 64 bit address so quite possible that memory addressing to and/or from the card is capped at 32 bits (even if the PCIe bus supports 64 bit addressing). But who knows. Even if any problems with 32 bit memory addressing to/from the card was dealt with, the TDM plugins themselves run in-part as 32 bit code on the host side and so can't run in a 64 bit address space, and you would have to bring over lots of the legacy 32 bit TDM runtime support code. Ah I know... add a separate 32 bit processes to run the plugins in a compatibility mode, and since its there you might as well have that process talk to the HD card, but that its as limited as before because its all 32 bits. Now how do you graft this Frankenstein-monster together with the new 64 bit core of Pro Tools? Oh well somebody will work that out, after all its "just software" and anything is possible. But all that brain surgery, old rotting body parts and smoke and mirrors will add significant complexity and likely introduce lots of problems, and for what benefit? To run some legacy boards (that are getting very slow compared to HDX or to native CPU) that the user could run by just staying at Pro Tools 10. And the retention of that legacy code may now made things impossible like freeze tracks or faster than real time bounce that lots of people have been asking for but RTAS and/or TDM legacy plugin architectures apparently make difficult to implement.

I might be wrong and maybe there is a technical absolute show stopper reason why this is not possible, but hand waving and saying something is possible in principle/theory with software like the OP has is not much of a claim, doing it and shipping a usable, stable, testable and supportable product in a reasonable time frame is a another whole story.

Just take your Pro Tools 10 system, buy all the TDM plugins you'll ever want, don't upgrade anything and it will keep running your old HD cards until they or the computer breaks. Avid really should not be looking back worrying about this, and the good thing is there is no sign they are.

Darryl

[phatbeatstudio]

Originally Posted by Marsdy

Pro Tools 10 is a transitionary release. I am suggesting Avid do the same thing with Pro Tools 11 because of the chronic shortage of HDX plug-ins.

.
http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=328564

I personally think AVID should GIVE me HD11 for free
I Bought HDX with the promise of plugin support

I have not been able to get the plugins I NEED to make a album the way I want to.

[Emcha_audio]

Originally Posted by phatbeatstudio

I personally think AVID should GIVE me HD11 for free
I Bought HDX with the promise of plugin support

I have not been able to get the plugins I NEED to make a album the way I want to.

No promises was ever given, they did say that they already had some major PI maker on the go, and that was true. 1 year.. 1 year.. let me say this again.. 1 year.. 83 DSP plugins available, mix and tdm didn't have that at all in one year. So yeah maybe some of the PI maker are not yet on board, but I'd say that there is PI support.

Sheesh, don't take this wrong caused it's not aimed specifically at you, but I wonder how most of you guys would have reacted when Avid came up with TDM and actually didn't have the transition phase that we are enjoying with PT10/HDX. Now, now, now, now, now, not tomorrow, now, spoon fed, we can't wait, waaah. This job requires load of patience (mostly to deal with the artists) so where is it with you guys?

[rockridge]

I don't own a TDM system... I've got no stake in this.

From my point of view, I don't even see a reason to buy 10... let alone 11 that won't support anything but AAX.
Be that as it may... I try not to let anyone string me along.

But if I had actually bought into TDM, paid double price for plugins which will also be unusable in the new software... I'd feel like a sucker!

[dave911]

TDM owners will be able to do everything the day after 11 comes out they are doing today. It's not obsolete if you can still do real work on it.
Digi003 came out 5 years ago, it's EOL in 11.
The lifespan of an iphone is what, 36 hours or so.
THe HDX folks are dealing with the same thing all early adopters face, the ecosystem isn't there yet and things might not develop the way you assumed they would.
That's why they call it the bleeding edge.

[CME]

Originally Posted by rockridge

I don't own a TDM system... I've got no stake in this.

From my point of view, I don't even see a reason to buy 10... let alone 11 that won't support anything but AAX.
Be that as it may... I try not to let anyone string me along.

But if I had actually bought into TDM, paid double price for plugins which will also be unusable in the new software... I'd feel like a sucker!

I have no stake in the TDM part either. But I do use VI's quite often. I think an RTAS/TDM free 64-bit pro tools will be a great step forward. Yes there will probably be some issues, and I'll have to wait a bit for everything to be ported. But I also do a lot of audio only mixing. And all the plugs I need are already ported to AAX. So once pt11 comes out I'll clone my system and still have pt10 for when I do need my VI's. So IMO bring on pt11. :)

Oh and I often do hour long sessions. The possibility of a non-realtime bounce is also something that could really help me.

[froyo]

Originally Posted by Marsdy

The reason is simple. There just aren't enough HDX plug-ins out there and won't be for some time. A transitionary Pro Tools 11 would allow more time for more 3rd party plug-ins to come to market.

SURELY I'm not the ONLY TDM user holding off on HDX because there aren't enough plug-ins for the format and in my opinion, won't be for some considerable time.... And maybe never in some cases...

Hello. But again, Pro Tools 10 already 'allows more time for 3rd party plug ins to come to market' as you say. Why do you want/need Pro Tools 11 to do something Pro Tools 10 already does?

[CME]

Been thinking about this some more. If you must have TDM and pro tools 11, sync two rigs. Your TDM system running what you need to there on pr10 and a pt11 system for AAX plugs and VI's. Best of both worlds.