The Logic of Staying on Pro Tools?

[blewis]

I'm in the final moments of my crossroads on choosing if I want to follow the PT upgrade path from my original PT8 LE license that came with my 11R. Some of my comments below are things I've said on TGP, so you may have read them before. I'm biased, you guys have already heard me b*tch about it.

I'll try to make this my last post on the subject.

Yes, I knew from the beginning that my 11R was tethered to my PT license. Yup. I bought it. I wanted to try out Pro Tools. Liked it. Didn't need PT9 right away. Before I knew it, it was costing $500 to remain in the Avid Pro Tools family.

They haven't said it yet, but it feels like when PT11 comes out, they'll really give us the finger and charge full price $700. I have no reason to expect they will not based on current behavior.

Some expectations were set, when they setup ideaScale and actually listened to customers and implemented the first expansion pack. People were thrilled. Felt like more things were go to happen.

Nobody is asking for free upgrades to the DAW. Nobody. People were falling all over themselves buying the $100 expansion pack. Happy to do it. I was one of them. Fair price. No complaints.

Some counter examples for DAW upgrade pricing. I have an ancient DP license. It's $200 to get back into the family despite me being 3 versions behind. Apple just _lowered_ the price of Logic to $200.

It's cheaper to cross grade to other DAWs than it is to upgrade my PT license. While that's a common case, the $200 vs $550 ($500 + iLok) cost comes across as customer hostility to me.

They're just plain and simply telling me to ef off if I don't cough up $500 (or $700 if I don't get my mind right - my speculation).

That's cool. That just sours my overall 11R experience. And I've been pretty positive on the 11R itself.

I've looked into some options this morning for installing PT8 LE on my Lion machine and I honestly can't be bothered to spend an hour installing, tracking down missing Expansion pack packages, repairing permissions and jumping though any other hoops that may present itself to install unsupported software on my machine.

Buying an external FW800 drive enclosure looks like it will at least cost me $100, I'll have to clone my laptop drive, and hopefully that would work.

.... but that $100 puts me half way to buying Logic doesn't it? Logic is supported/PT8 LE isn't (on my OS).

So.... is there any Logic to for me to stick with PT? I can't see any. The only way it makes sense is:

1) I sell my 11R, take the cash and turn around and buy a new bundle.
-> I find this option insulting. It's WAY easier to download Logic from the Mac App store and not be hassled by the whole thing. I can have a new DAW in the same amount of time it takes to author the post to Craigslist. (although I'm rambling here so who says my time is valued! )

2) I wait for the 11R mk11 and get a new PT license.
-> Absolutely no communication from Avid if this will ever happen.

I'm not a "Pro". I do this for fun. I just wanna fire up my DAW whenever the moment strikes on whatever machine I want. Since I don't spend the big bucks, I guess it stands to reason Avid doesn't want me around.

This situation just doesn't make any sense to me.

Can anyone talk me out of leaving the PT family and going to Logic?

[richpjr]

Not going to try and talk you out of it because I was already at your crossroads and bought Logic. I am trying to decide whether to keep the 11R myself or sell it. I have the presets I mainly used loaded in it and have been living without the ability to upload and download them, but that can't last forever. I do have an old laptop that I could use with 8LE, but frankly I'm so annoyed with Avid that I am leaning towards selling it. I did try out S-Gear from Scuffham Amps and while it's clearly nowhere near the 11R as far as features and effects goes, it does a few things very well and an update (for no charge) is coming out next month that adds more effects - we'll see on it. I guess I'll also check out the new Boss GT-100.

[Benoni]

I would guess that the next gen Eleven Rack - if there is one, will be at least 2 years away. How many OSX upgrades do you think will be released between now and 2 years? Will you be OK with staying on an older OS just so you can run PT LE 8?

Maybe you could find a used PT9 license or even used PT10 license for sale somewhere that is in your price range. If you look in the Buy/Sell section here you should be able to find something.

If you need an iLok, then you can find the version 1 iLoks for around $20 - $25 on ebay.

Or if you want an iLok v2, the best way to get one IMO, is to buy a plugin that includes the iLok. Such as Steven Slate RC TUBE. Its $49 for just the plugin, or $69 for the plugin + an iLok2, so basically $20 for a shiny new iLok, plus you get a kick @ss plugin ($69 total).

And as you mentioned you can sell your 11R, then re buy the new bundle.

I think used 11Rs with the ERXP and a PT license/software are going for $450 -$550. So you add $200 to your profits and you are close to the price of the new bundle, which can be had for $699 to $750 all day.

Have you ever used Logic? If not, you may want to get a trial (if they offer one) You may not like it, you may love it.

One reason to stay would be so you can use the 11R UI.

A standalone editor would probably make your decision much easier, which is probably why Avid has not released one yet

I too am wondering what will happen when PT11 drops, will they really put the screws to non-current users, or will they just not offer an upgrade path at all? Which would mean you just buy the full "version" which looks like it will retail at $599 or $699 maybe more. OR possibly Avid will offer very low crossgrade prices to get people off of the old versions that use RTAS/TDM so they can focus on AAX and the new software without non-current users asking for bug fixes and the like. Im looking forward to the end of the year, this could get interesting. But until then, Im just gonna be happy with little 'ole PT9.

[zedhed]

I think it's a case of horses for courses. If you haven't done so already, identify what you absolutely need out of a DAW and make a decision based on that.

There are a few members here that I've seen jump to another platform and some have ended up jumping back. This can be expensive so make your choice wisely as once you've made the investment you're sort of stuck with it at least for a while.

Over the years PT has at times been a real pita to get running properly but I'm on 9 and it's rock solid. I'm now in a wait and see mode (not bothering with v10) as I think a lot will depend on how the roll-out of a x64 platform looks both feature vs price wise. In the meantime I'm saving my $ so when it comes I'll be in a position to either jump on board or take my money elsewhere.

My advice would be to use trial versions of other programs and see how you like them. Take your time and see what's going to happen with PT in the near future before you take the leap. IMHO, now is not the right time to be leaving...

There's a change in the air....I can smell it.

[DAR Fritz]

FWIW I switched to Logic after talking to an engineer who's been in the business a long time and uses both PT and Logic. He had nothing but great things to say about Logic, especially working with MIDI. He also liked the Flex editing Logic has.

In all fairness, I was on PT 8 when I switched to Logic and have no idea what the newer PT versions are like. I assume they have more features but I have to say I absolutely love Logic. It's easy, stable, very efficient, and the plug-ins are top shelf, and I'm only using Logic 9 Express. The Pro version comes with even more outstanding plugins.

While I have to fire up PT to save rigs, which is a hassle, I'm very happy w/ Logic and I'm not lookin back...

[moff]

I was a 2" tape guy for years, and then got into the DAW world on PTLE 5 and 6 with Digi 001/002 rigs. I hated Protools' rigidity the anti-piracy schemes - they treated all customers as potential criminals - and their lack of customer service. Even back then, we surmised that they didn't care because we weren't multi-million-dollar installations.

When I switched to Mac and OSX 5 or so years back, I also switched to Logic. There were some differences, but overall, I found it lighter in terms of required resources, much less restrictive, and much more intuitive.

Along came my 11R, and a switch back to restrictive, cumbersome, and resource-hungry ProTools. I have both PT9 and PT10, and I REALLY tried to like ProTools, but quite frankly, Logic works better.

The $200 Logic Pro that Apple is now offering is not the same as the $500 Logic Studio package, but it offers as much as you'd get with ProTools 10 AND the Production Toolkit. I'd go back in a heartbeat; faster if there was a standalone editor.

In terms of pricing, companies want to be seen as a premium brand and will unashamedly charge more for their stuff, even though it's no better than its competition. Gibson is one (the first thing the current owner did was jack up prices, not improve quality), and Avid is another.

[stevenleavitt]

Editing between multiple takes across grouped-tracks that need to be nudged a little is a lot easier in PT. I have to admit I rely on the Alternate Playlists features a lot. So is working with automation rubber-bands. I like Logic a lot, but for different reasons.

I've decided after several projects using either or both to track and edit in PT and to compose and sequence in Logic.