OT Post sync dialogue

[idris]

I've run several ADR sessions in the past and bluffed my way through them quite successfully. But can anyone point me to any decent How To articles.

Alternatively, would anyone in SE England be prepared to let me sit in on a session in the near future.

[Pete Gates]

Hi,
Don't know of any 'how to' articles. What is it you think you're looking to learn? How have the sessions you've run gone? Have you/subsequent people dealing with the shot material been happy with it - quality/matching/sync etc. How is your studio rigged for ADR - mics/picture monitors etc? How are you recording/cueing/reviewing? I do a fair bit of ADR in London - mostly in Soho, just trying to guage 'where you are' experience wise before firing off loads of waffle or sounding patronising!!

Pete

[idris]

Every time I've done any ADR I've been the only person dealing with it (recording, editing & mixing) & I've had as little experience doing it as the clients / directors. I knew what I was trying to achieve so I've bluffed my way through it without the benefits of anyone else's knowledge. I seemed to get away with it.

Recording voices (both wild & narration) and editing ADR I'm pretty happy with.

What I'm uncertain about is the details of looping, cueing beeps, standard ways of laying out PT session for the recording, work flow during recording, roughly how long things normally take etc.


(FYI - About 11yrs experience in audio post & about 7yrs on PT. Mostly TV docos, light ent etc, but always trying to do more drama.)

[pat yacono]

If you are just replacing poorly recorded lines, load the lines to be replaced into a sampler, and feed the actors their performance over and over, and let them copy their performance. I replaced 100% of the dialog in a film I worked on in this manner. They were recording straight to a DVX, and never flipped the mic switch, so they recorded all dialog with the on camera mic, even though they had a boom going. Works great for inexperienced actors. Otherwise, check out VoiceQ, works great for bande rythmo style text overlay ADR, and it is a much nicer method than traditional beeps. Keeps the talent's eyes on screen and not on a script, and allows you to manage multiple talent in the same ADR session.

[Pete Gates]

What I'm uncertain about is the details of looping, cueing beeps, standard ways of laying out PT session for the recording, work flow during recording, roughly how long things normally take etc.

(FYI - About 11yrs experience in audio post & about 7yrs on PT. Mostly TV docos, light ent etc, but always trying to do more drama.)

You'll rarely come across the Bande system Pat mentioned in the UK, I don't mind it though some editors I know hate it - don't know why really. The 'standard' setup (and there will always be good places that do it differently so it's not gospel) in the UK is for the dialog editor to supply the ADR mixer with cues on a printout (often in different formats for the mixer/artist/director - differing levels of technical info, the artist doesn't need to know sample rates/frame rates/timecodes or other session info just loopnumbers and dialogue) from Word/ADR Studio/ADR Manager(which is the one I use) etc. They'll then type those cues into a Colin Broad 'streamer' (some places are geared up to load the cues to the streamer from a PC) which generates a vertical right moving wiping bar that hits a static one on the right at the cue point. This will also generate 3 beeps and the artist cues on an imaginary 4th beep at that rhythm. Some artists like the beeps, some like the wipes, some couldn't hit a barn door at two paces with a sledgehammer! You have to break down the loops (as the ADR cues are called) into manageable sections though be prepared for the artist to break them up further/join them together as best works for them. Most places will run the loop several times for the artist to pick up on the rhythm/performance again then start shooting/reviewing takes. It's best (for you!) if they can perform in sync with the original as you can get an immediate impression of how the sync is working. Some like to hear themselves and the original production sound, some just one or the other. Some artists like to hear the existing production line played then repeat it as a take immediately after - this can work but I don't like it and have found that it slows things down (you won't get a good idea of sync till you play it back) and most artists don't remember the rhythm as well as they think they do: they're usually too slow and get pauses wrong. If you've got the difficult job of shooting an additional line to go into an existing scene of production sound always play into and out of the recorded line against the production sound to check for tonal/performance match - if you have the luxury use the same mic (or at least of a similar type) as was used on location. It's often important to get the artist back into the physicality of the shot - are they sitting/standing/running/gasping for air?! Generally ADR is most convincing (especially additional lines) when it doesn't sound like a radio voiceover, get some movement (without too much foot movement!) going etc. Generally in the UK sessions aren't actually looped anymore, the artist will watch a few times, have a go, abort, have another go, review, have another go. You have to try and keep your rhythm as snappy as possible so when they think they've got it you're ready to shoot without keeping them waiting - it can be quite difficult to do but saying the lines well and in sync is even harder! I usually expect sessions to be delivered to me as a Sel(ect) track one or two Opt(ions) tracks then a track (usually twin gun/personal in the UK) per take. I'd also take notes as sometimes (often!) I'd want to go between takes though sometimes I manage to do that pre-editing on the stage as part of the review. As for time I've found estimates can be wildly wrong, they can vary hugely by difficulty of line/length of line/the artist's ability but for TV I'd generally tell Post Supervisors about 10 lines per hour and for film a bit less but it really depends.

Sort of jumped around a bit there - not writing a book! If there's anything you want more detail on - and some of this is opinion based! Give me a shout. Are you in London? Whereabouts do you work?

Pete

[idris]

Thanks Pete - a big help.

I assume that if there’s nothing like a Colin Broad available it’s not inappropriate to just work from a paper cue sheet and manually place three beeps before each cue? (Obviously wipes are a bit harder!)
Do you ever use Alternate Playlists within a PT track for different takes? (Personally I’m not a fan of them, but I’m sure they have their place …)
You also mention “twin gun/personal” tracks: would you usually set up PT to record grouped/stereo/multi-channel tracks for shotgun and tie mics together?

Having only gone freelance in the last 12 months I’m not really based anywhere specific; I was at ITV in London for about 6yrs prior to that. Unfortunately I’ve fallen into some very mundane work since (but it’s regular! and it pays!!! so I won’t grumble too much) so I’m conscious I need brush up on some skills and start making myself a bit more marketable.

[Pete Gates]

Thanks Pete - a big help.

No Problem!

I assume that if there’s nothing like a Colin Broad available it’s not inappropriate to just work from a paper cue sheet and manually place three beeps before each cue? (Obviously wipes are a bit harder!)

Yeah, I've had to do that before and it's ok - with a forgiving artist! I used to consolidate 3 beeps plus end space so I could just Ctrl-Opt-Cmd click it to copy and backtime it to the cue point.

Do you ever use Alternate Playlists within a PT track for different takes? (Personally I’m not a fan of them, but I’m sure they have their place …)

Never have, no. I find it handy to be able to see every take instantly but I'm sure some people use them effectively.

You also mention “twin gun/personal” tracks: would you usually set up PT to record grouped/stereo/multi-channel tracks for shotgun and tie mics together?

Yep stereo, though if you're monitoring directly out of ProTools rather than an external desk it may be easier to use separate but grouped tracks so you can quickly listen to both legs separately (unless some clever person can tell me a way to individually solo/mute legs without fiddling around at the top of a multi-mono plugin?). For review against production sound you often want to try each mic in turn to see which is giving a closer match without further tweaking.

Having only gone freelance in the last 12 months I’m not really based anywhere specific; I was at ITV in London for about 6yrs prior to that. Unfortunately I’ve fallen into some very mundane work since (but it’s regular! and it pays!!! so I won’t grumble too much) so I’m conscious I need brush up on some skills and start making myself a bit more marketable.

Been in that position (never know, may be again!) - good luck!

Pete