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  #1  
Old 05-17-2002, 04:50 PM
Mt.Everest Mt.Everest is offline
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Default Woah! 2 clients in one day asking "when will I trash PT and get Nuendo?"-Valid??

So all I know about Nuendo is:

-Primarily host based, with the added cores like TC Core.
-Has its own apogee made hardware. (proprietary?)
-Based on Cubase (which I never liked)
-Cheaper
-Kind of a buzz about it in the industry (with several clients asking and also big name endorsers like Fillipetti etc..)

So the question is, should I worry? Should I consider it? And is there anyone out there who has been an avid protools user and tried Nuendo?-- Did you switch and never look back, or did you go back to PT?

Any informed people , please start the comparisons.

AND PLEASE, NO BASHING, OF EITHER PALATFORM. JUST THE FACTS AND GENERAL OPINION!!!

MT
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  #2  
Old 05-17-2002, 04:53 PM
beatboy beatboy is offline
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Default Re: Woah! 2 clients in one day asking "when will I trash PT and get Nuendo?"-Valid??

If your doing good & can afford PT. Why not have both.
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  #3  
Old 05-17-2002, 04:56 PM
Mt.Everest Mt.Everest is offline
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Default Re: Woah! 2 clients in one day asking "when will I trash PT and get Nuendo?"-Valid??

Well is that a possibility? Can Nuendo be run with PT Hardware?
Can it be used with NO hardware, and just as software like Logic or the 'ol Powermix ?

MT
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  #4  
Old 05-17-2002, 05:22 PM
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The Weed The Weed is offline
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Default Re: Woah! 2 clients in one day asking "when will I trash PT and get Nuendo?"-Valid??

I haven't sat down and used Nuendo, but I've seen a major demonstration.Here's a post I started elsewhere:

http://www.nuendo.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/008180.html

A couple of people emailed me separately and their opinion was that Neuendo was better cost-wise for home, small and medium studios. The work could be done just as easily on Nuendo and clients came to these studios for the owner, not necessarily for the tools. The difference in cost between a Nuendo system and a TDM system would mean more gear and/or food, especially if the business was just starting. Large studios would continue - for the foreseeable future - to use Pro Tools. It is the de facto industry standard. However, as computers continue to become more powerful, host based systems will become more prevalent even in larger studios.

I would have to agree with the above post that if you can afford it, get both. I also have to agree that Nuendo has some pretty respectable people on-board. I even saw a post on their forum from Bob Clearmountain. Here's the link: http://www.nuendo.com/forum/Forum3/HTML/000996.html Check out his profile and go to his website. This guy can afford anything and I think there's anything he doesn't have or can't get.

Here's a post from the Windows LE forum:

http://duc.digidesign.com/cgi-bin/ub...;f=32;t=004370

You may want to look at the Mix article referenced in the the first posting.

And here is some observations I made in another post on the Windows LE Forums entitled "When is XP support coming!":

"Da BaSsTaRd

I hear a lot of pain. While I am not doing music as most of you are I would like to see the video support our Mac bretheren have enjoyed for a long time. We PC people seem to be always behind with Digi and always waiting. Although I would wait a while longer just for zero crossing editing.

In another topic you mentioned Nuendo. In the same post mattm derided Nuendo's interface, editing capabilities, etc. I haven't tried Nuendo as mattm has implied he has, but I have seen a detailed demonstration. The features that I immediately noticed were that it works on all Windows OS's up to XP, great audio for video capabilities, SMPTE and OMF import and export, VST and Direct X along with excellent midi capabilities and zero crossing editing. Like mattm I'm not in love with Nuendo's GUI, but the above features - and probably many more I don't know about - would seem to far outweigh the interface. Is Nuendo buggy as mattm suggests? Of course it is. Any incredibly complex software such as that for DAW will be. Even Pro Tools isn't bug free.

Here are some considerations:

Pro Tools, even PTLE on a host based system, is a closed and proprietary entity. Pro Tools only works with it's own hardware and it's difficult or impossible to get anyone else's software to work with the Pro Tools hardware. Mac has prioroty over PC. You're limited to the tracks that Digi gives you regardless of CPU horsepower. Windows OS support ends at ME. No dual processor support.

Steinberg's Nuendo and Wavelab, along with other manufacturers' software, appear to be "open" in the sense that they will run with almost any soundcard. With Nuendo your track count is totally dependant on your CPU power up to - so I understand - 200 audio tracks and virtually unlimited midi tracks. All Windows OS's are currently supported and there is dual processor support. Neither side of the eternal debate, Mac or PC, seems to be unduly favored.

Am I recommending or considering a switch to Nuendo? I think that depends on your individual, personal preferences, wants and needs along with your budget. To me, Nuendo looks like a host based, budget conscious version of Pro Tools TDM. (TDM users, please don't flame me. I'm not saying Nuendo is Pro Tools TDM. Although there was a post by one TDM user who said they had a $25,000 HD3 system and a $2,500 Nuendo system. The comment was that Nuendo wasn't HD3, but that their HD3 wasn't $22,500 better either. Full post here: http://duc.digidesign.com/cgi-bin/ub...f=16;t=012572)

I'm waiting to see what surprises Digi has in store for us with the XP upgrade, whether those surprises are all good, all bad or somewhere in between. Like N-G-NEER, I too hope that Digi will "reply" to their surging competitors and perhaps lead the field as they have in the past. I also hope that their stated committment to the PC world and their oft repeated desire to provide parity between Mac and PC is real and not just lip service to quiet the grumbling of the great unwashed who just won't get over it and buy a Mac. If none of this comes to pass, or only a small part of it, then it will be time to re-evaluate my investment in and commitment too Pro Tools and take a look at what else is available in the DAW universe.

da BaSsTaRd, if you do decide to move on to Nuendo, I for one will miss you as I always enjoy your posts and you have been enormously supportive of everyone, especially with hosting MP3's and getting the compilation CD together. However, if you do switch I know you'll be checking back here and keeping in touch. Just one favor, please? If you do switch to Nuendo, I would really appreciate it if you would email me and let me know how you like it, how easy/difficult it was to switch, whether you would recommend the switch and why or why not and anything else you think a person who is considering making the move should know."

Full post here:

http://duc.digidesign.com/cgi-bin/ub...;f=32;t=006697

I've been doing some research and would be happy to send you the text of the private emails I received if you'd like. Just email me.

Cheers,
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  #5  
Old 05-17-2002, 05:27 PM
MattiMattMatt MattiMattMatt is offline
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Default Re: Woah! 2 clients in one day asking "when will I trash PT and get Nuendo?"-Valid??

My biggest interest in the Nuendo stuff is the VST system link feature in which you can add horsepower by adding and linking computers, a la SETI. With the new rackmounted macs, this could really rock. Really really rock.

I'm a little suspicious of the celebrity endorsements -- I'm not so sure these guys are doing all that much actual work with these systems at this point. Who knows? Maybe they got free t-shirts.

Plus, the last time I checked, the bullitan board for Nuendo (mac) had lots of complainers bitching about heavy-on-the-gimmicks (aka features), light on stability and support.

-MMM
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  #6  
Old 05-17-2002, 06:01 PM
digiengineer digiengineer is offline
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Default Re: Woah! 2 clients in one day asking "when will I trash PT and get Nuendo?"-Valid??

I know one engineer (whom many may consider a celebrity) who has a Nuendo system. He has the sweet f'n setup:

(2 ) G4's, one runs PT, the other runs Nuendo. Both connected to the same (6) AD8000s, a 3348, and a Mackie HDR. He's ready for anything! You can run Nuendo with PT hardware via the Digi control panel, unfortunatly, thru 2 channels only.

Nuendo is totally scalable and doesn't require hardware, it may be good have ready for Nuendo clients. As to the question on whether it better than PT? Maybe in 10 or 12 years. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
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  #7  
Old 05-17-2002, 06:57 PM
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Alécio Costa Alécio Costa is offline
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Default Re: Woah! 2 clients in one day asking "when will I trash PT and get Nuendo?"-Valid??

DIGI just have to:
a) improve the mix buss
b) linimize latency
c) lower the prices

I am a PT man, addicted to it, but would like to see prices going down [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img]
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  #8  
Old 05-17-2002, 07:18 PM
Heaven Heaven is offline
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Default Re: Woah! 2 clients in one day asking "when will I trash PT and get Nuendo?"-Valid??

Having been a Nuendo user for the past 8 months I will try to put my limited but honest view forward about Nuendo. Just from experience.

First of all, if you are a PT user and want to switch to Nuendo because of "reviews" and industry chanting, you may be a little disappointed. Nuendo has some great features but one of them is definitely "not" it's GUI or stability. There are a lot of features such as 9 pin support(yes it's there but doesn't work) and the routing architecture, (just a little to stienbergy for me) that aren't good. Now everyone has different experiences, but for me as a highly fluent windows operator who can tweak a system to the max, the reality is that windows is still windows. From what I have seen with other users also, you will get the best performance and reliability from it with a PC not mac, so this leaves you with the question of which platform do you use. If it is windows you will be chewing at the bit comong from a mac, ot trying to get a mac to talk to pc for transfer ability, that will drive you crazy when you need to shift everything over to mac in a hurry because the client wants too. So if you choose mac, you may be just a little out on your own in some respects. The late porting over to mac suggests an after thought type of situation from stienberg. Most likely the reason for it's mac related probs.

I definately thought that I would be using a pc for pro audio for ever!, but the test of time absolutely said to me; if you want to run an extremely reliable turnkey system in a studio, go with the system that has proven itself and that paying clients actually ask for. PT has proven itself time and time again.

As matti said, I have also been around Nuendo and the forums for quite a while and sometimes it seems a little hyped. But at the end of the day what does that matter, lots of people like it. Sometimes though I feel that the reason a lot of people are singing it's praises is because it is a lot smaller investment than pt. Just an observation.

If users are diciding to get both systems for professional and compatability reasons that is an individual choice, but honestly I have never had a client ring up and say "do you have a Nuendo system" but I am sure you can guess how many ring and ask for pt. Maybe one day that will change?

For now, there still really is only one business oriented option, pt.... [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

At the end of the day, if you can justify the expense and have a genuine reason for needing Nuendo, then why not buy it! Just make sure you check it out thoroughly for yourself first, and talk to as many pro users (ones without an agenda) as possible. And dont listen to hype. Just take real world facts!! If it does what you need it to, then hey, you have made the right decision.

Personaaly, I don't know if it's the look and feel of Nuendo or what, but I just can't seem to take it seriuosly.

Not sure if this all makes sense to the reader, but anyway......Hope it gives some thoughts?

Peace
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  #9  
Old 05-17-2002, 08:31 PM
maxserg maxserg is offline
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Default Re: Woah! 2 clients in one day asking "when will I trash PT and get Nuendo?"-Valid??

It makes me laugh when peoples say"Hey do you get this or that in your studio!"

Theese are not the peoples who make you earn your money.

They come(the clients) in your studio because you have the knowledge or have abilities to bring the project where they aim at. Not the toys you have in your studio!

The results counts, and for the tools, it's up to you! [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
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  #10  
Old 05-17-2002, 08:51 PM
Mt.Everest Mt.Everest is offline
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Default Re: Woah! 2 clients in one day asking "when will I trash PT and get Nuendo?"-Valid??

Thanks guys, really informative points, especially Heaven.

Maxserg, I disagree with your statement tho. Alot of clients, such as the ones I was referring to have made the switch over to Neundo in their bedroom studios. They are asking if I have it or will be getting it becasue they do alot of preproduction, midi, basic tracks, references, etc and then bring it into the studio to do more "final product" work, which is where I come in.
They are not looking for the newest toys in my studio, but for compatibility. They used to, and still do, bring over PT files to work off of. They were wondering if I had thought about Nuendo as an option because they have stopped using Protools and want to be able to bring in backups of the sessions they started in Nuendo.

And I brought it up becasue alot of my business is based from writers and production teams that do alot of at home pre-prod. I was curious how "hot" Nuendo was and if these people will all be using it soon and ridding themseleves of the Digi001 or TDM. I want to be ready to keep my client list. So far only about 10% have switched to it, so Im not worried yet. I hope that wont change cuz i do LOVE Protools..

MT
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