Proper Recording Levels

[BCnSTL]

Great thread.

There went my day.

[TimothyJohn]

Originally Posted by mikeyman

why do you record at 24 instead of 32floating

Sorry it took so long to answer, kinda busy.

The reason I record at 24 bit is to save space on the hard drive. 32 bit float creates larger files. That's the only reason. And I record hot enough so as to avoid the noise problem, and take extra care so as not to clip. Usually, with a bit of trial and error, I get good results recording, so I'm saving space by using 24 bit.

Mixing is an entirely different story. But the wisdom being shared here also applies to busses---watch those levels going in!!

[bryced87]

Here is a question that I've alway wondered. On the Pro Tools level meter does Orange means distortion? I've heard various opinions on this. Some say that when you mix/master a song to never have it hit orange but many master recordings bought from iTunes read orange in the meter but don't sound distorted.

[mikeyman]

green yellow or red ....where are you seeing orange?If you see red yes you may hear some distortion noise.

[bryced87]

Originally Posted by mikeyman

green yellow or red ....where are you seeing orange?If you see red yes you may hear some distortion noise.

Orange as in here http://media.soundonsound.com/sos/ju...umbs/PT_01.jpg

[bcwiz]

Originally Posted by YYR123

So let me ask a question - all the studios running large consoles, what levels are they sending to pro tools? B/c they are surely running hotter that -10 on the desk itself

Yes consoles typically run at 0VU= +4dbm=1.23v.
Depending on the converter calibration that could be -24 DBFS, -20 DBFS, -18 DBFS, -14 DBFS or...
For example a Digi003 is fixed at -14DBFS, a 192 comes shipped at -18DBFS but can be adjusted.

(When you say -10 without a reference it has no meaning)

For what it's worth I still record basically the same as I did on tape except now I have the luxury of not worrying about the noise floor so I can record with a wider dynamic range. When I playback my tracks on an analogue console the desk is not "pinned" as I see so many guys doing these days.

[bryced87]

Why would Paul Draper in the "In The Box Series" add an effect or compression to boost the level then trim it back down to -10? Isn't that just getting rid of what he did with the effect? He also never moves the faders around either which is crucial to mixing. He never once explains using volume automation or anything.

[YYR123]

Originally Posted by bcwiz

Yes consoles typically run at 0VU= +4dbm=1.23v.
Depending on the converter calibration that could be -24 DBFS, -20 DBFS, -18 DBFS, -14 DBFS or...
For example a Digi003 is fixed at -14DBFS, a 192 comes shipped at -18DBFS but can be adjusted.

Very nice bc

So your track on the console can hit 0vu , but your converter can be 0vu on the desk but -14dbfs in Pro Tools

Very nice - I didn't put those 2 scenarios together till the other day...

I am looking at using a console I have and pushing the audio from there to pro tools and was curious

[Sam C]

Originally Posted by bryced87

Why would Paul Draper in the "In The Box Series" add an effect or compression to boost the level then trim it back down to -10? Isn't that just getting rid of what he did with the effect? He also never moves the faders around either which is crucial to mixing. He never once explains using volume automation or anything.

Because if he compresses something hard he might be taming it and like that sound better. If he is talking compression he probably compresses hard then has to raise the output on the compressor to get back to the original level. Get it? My compression made it 6db quiter...I love the compressed sound but I need those 6db back...so, increase the output on the compressor by 6db.

I responded to another thread of yours. I think you might be trying to understand too much at one time. Record some stuff. Play with the signal in the orange and in the green...not in the red. Play back some of your tracks and try and decide what is right or wrong. Take your time, slow down, it will come.

[JFreak]

Originally Posted by Sam C

Record some stuff. Play with the signal in the orange and in the green...not in the red. Play back some of your tracks and try and decide what is right or wrong. Take your time, slow down, it will come.

Better yet, think of yellow as the new red. Record using pre-fader metering. Stay in the green. There's nothing to be gained in yellow/orange area, unless your AD converter has greater than 129dB dynamic range (24bit fixed has 144dB dynamics). Usually even the greatest ones are in the 120dB area so if you're above green you're just amplifying noise.

So... check your AD converter specs. If it says it has 120dB dynamics range, then anything hotter than -24dBFS is only amplifying noise. If you want to be sure to get all that 120dB dynamics in use, give yourself 6dB (equivalent to one bit) margin for error, and think of -18dBFS as maximum quality. Have you ever heard of gear being calibrated to -18dBFS = 0VU perhaps? This is why.