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  #1  
Old 06-14-2020, 10:34 AM
livstone livstone is offline
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Default Looking to Put an Pro Tools 10HD system together

I am preparing an upgrade from an expanded Mix TDM system that included a Mix Core, 7 Mix farms and two Sample Cell cards that were in an expansion chassis powered by a dual boot G4 MDD 1.25 computer. My interfaces are three Apogee AD8000 Special Editions. I love the sound of this system. I am looking to pick up one of the PCIE Mac Pro towers, 8 or 12 core and possibly use an expansion chassis but at the very least have an HD3 system inside the computer.

My biggest question is with the interfaces. I am sure the 192 I/O's are good units but how do they compare to the Apogees and which of the Apogees should I consider? My current Apogees have a very tape like sound to them and would like to somewhat replicate that sound in my new setup. I would need 16 analogue inputs and outputs and 8 digital in and outs.

Any assistance or guidance is most appreciated.

Thanks
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  #2  
Old 06-14-2020, 01:37 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is online now
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Default Re: Looking to Put an Pro Tools 10HD system together

Oh boy you really want to do this? You what have 3x8=24 IO, you can do up to 32 IO on Pro Tools standard today. You will have very limited access to modern plugins on Pro Tools 10.

How are you planning to use the 192? If you really love the AD8000 you should hopefully be able to hang your current AD8000 off the legacy (TDM) port on the 192. Or you could get a 192 Digital and go into it from the AD8000 via AES/EBU, or find an an ADAT expansion card for the AD8000 and use that into 192.

Are you only looking at 192 IO for the legacy port? If not a HD IO might be better, and can be found used as well. And now all these are really replaced by the DAD rebadged products.

It is not clear what question you are asking about what Apogee products. You want advice about buying something like a Symphony or Symphony 2 to go with this TDM system? They all sound good, but sound quality would not be my main concern here... feature/connectivity/budget/future compatibility (eg Thunderbolt/USB) would be.

I doubt you will be able to tell the any audio quality difference between AD8000, a 192, or a HD IO. But you should try when you get one.

Hope some of that helps, but for all the hassle, personally I would go pick up an Apogee Ensemble or UAD Apollo and run Pro Tools native on a Mac Mini (or bigger if needed)..

Last edited by Darryl Ramm; 06-14-2020 at 03:01 PM.
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  #3  
Old 06-15-2020, 12:48 AM
livstone livstone is offline
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Default Re: Looking to Put an Pro Tools 10HD system together

Thanks Darryl for the input...I appreciate it.

The reason I wanted to put the 10HD system together is mainly bag for the buck reasons while modernizing a bit from what I was using. After researching previously I saw that above 10HD I would need the HDX cards which would bring the price up. I wasn't that concerned about the latest version of the plugins but the plan was to purchase some used compatible HD plugins. Also didn't want to have to pay subscription fees that the newer software demands.

A while back I also researched about using the Apogee through the legacy port of either the 96 or the 192 I/O and I remember reading that there were issues using it which by now may have been worked out. I did want the option to use higher resolution sessions which I can't do with the AD8000. I can give the various digital access options a try after purchasing. As far as the AVID HD it would also boost the pricing up so I was not originally considering that.

My main question was comparison opinion between the 192 I/O's compared to the compatible Apogees for the HD systems which you indicated that you doubt there is much sound difference.

Again the reason why I inquired about this is because I found big differences between the older 888's and the AD8000 and since I hadn't personally used any of the newer interfaces I wanted to see that still existed or not.

Thanks for your input!
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  #4  
Old 06-15-2020, 01:09 PM
s.d. finley s.d. finley is offline
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Default Re: Looking to Put an Pro Tools 10HD system together

Quote:
Originally Posted by livstone View Post
I am preparing an upgrade from an expanded Mix TDM system that included a Mix Core, 7 Mix farms and two Sample Cell cards that were in an expansion chassis powered by a dual boot G4 MDD 1.25 computer. My interfaces are three Apogee AD8000 Special Editions. I love the sound of this system. I am looking to pick up one of the PCIE Mac Pro towers, 8 or 12 core and possibly use an expansion chassis but at the very least have an HD3 system inside the computer.

My biggest question is with the interfaces. I am sure the 192 I/O's are good units but how do they compare to the Apogees and which of the Apogees should I consider? My current Apogees have a very tape like sound to them and would like to somewhat replicate that sound in my new setup. I would need 16 analogue inputs and outputs and 8 digital in and outs.

Any assistance or guidance is most appreciated.




MacPro 3.1 running Mountain Lion using PCIe TDM core card with several 192 interfaces would work very well. You might be able to source a MP3.1 locally on craigslist. They are cheap nowadays. Even better would be a MP5.1 bit those are still pricey. Do the apogees have a newer type of digilink card for the 'newer' at the time, PCIe core card connection?
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  #5  
Old 06-16-2020, 04:05 PM
livstone livstone is offline
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Default Re: Looking to Put an Pro Tools 10HD system together

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Originally Posted by s.d. finley View Post
MacPro 3.1 running Mountain Lion using PCIe TDM core card with several 192 interfaces would work very well. You might be able to source a MP3.1 locally on craigslist. They are cheap nowadays. Even better would be a MP5.1 bit those are still pricey. Do the apogees have a newer type of digilink card for the 'newer' at the time, PCIe core card connection?
Thanks. I've been checking on some Mac Pro 5.1 computers. As far as the Apogees I'm sure there are probably some cards for the PCIE slots but I am not positive. Most likely I'll be purchasing a couple of 192 I/O's.
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  #6  
Old 07-08-2020, 06:04 AM
groovebrother groovebrother is offline
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Default Re: Looking to Put an Pro Tools 10HD system together

hello


192 i/o are very good sounding converters and i do not think you would be disapointed with them
these were the ones at Capitol Recording for decades (sorry for 192 haters if any )



but i also could read that you had quite a lot of mix farms.
In case you would like to use many tdm plugins, i would strongly suggest you to find a PE6R4-i Magma chassis.
That means you should go for a PCI X cards upgrade - The chassis will make the link for PCI E slots in the mac pro.


why PCIX instead of PCI E?
because it is still way less expensve than second hand PCIE cards.


And you can find a chassis filled with accel cards for (sometimes) less than 1000$ on ebay - usually around 1500 wich is, believe me, worth the price
Just keep in mind that there is an issue with accel cards rev G : they do not work in the following chassis mixed with other rev's : PE9R4 & PE6R4-i
so make sure you don't have one if you buy a card bundle.
Any core card rev should do, but no accel rev G
If you get a card bundle with two cores + 4 accel that's fine too. Core cards have the excat same dsp cappabilities than accels.
If i may : try to avoid process cards



Keep in mind that the PE6R4-i is just a 6 cards holder and the tdm systems can go up to 7 cards.


there is no middle chassis between 7 slots (1slot is unsusable) and 13 slots wich BTW are very hard to find.
Still with a core card + 5 accel you will have enough ressources to mix the way you want ... unless you want 6 or 7 TDM TL Spaces in True Stereo mode
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Last edited by groovebrother; 07-08-2020 at 06:15 AM.
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  #7  
Old 08-20-2020, 06:04 PM
livstone livstone is offline
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Default Re: Looking to Put an Pro Tools 10HD system together

Quote:
Originally Posted by groovebrother View Post
hello


192 i/o are very good sounding converters and i do not think you would be disapointed with them
these were the ones at Capitol Recording for decades (sorry for 192 haters if any )



but i also could read that you had quite a lot of mix farms.
In case you would like to use many tdm plugins, i would strongly suggest you to find a PE6R4-i Magma chassis.
That means you should go for a PCI X cards upgrade - The chassis will make the link for PCI E slots in the mac pro.


why PCIX instead of PCI E?
because it is still way less expensve than second hand PCIE cards.


And you can find a chassis filled with accel cards for (sometimes) less than 1000$ on ebay - usually around 1500 wich is, believe me, worth the price
Just keep in mind that there is an issue with accel cards rev G : they do not work in the following chassis mixed with other rev's : PE9R4 & PE6R4-i
so make sure you don't have one if you buy a card bundle.
Any core card rev should do, but no accel rev G
If you get a card bundle with two cores + 4 accel that's fine too. Core cards have the excat same dsp cappabilities than accels.
If i may : try to avoid process cards



Keep in mind that the PE6R4-i is just a 6 cards holder and the tdm systems can go up to 7 cards.

there is no middle chassis between 7 slots (1slot is unsusable) and 13 slots wich BTW are very hard to find.
Still with a core card + 5 accel you will have enough ressources to mix the way you want ... unless you want 6 or 7 TDM TL Spaces in True Stereo mode
Thanks for this detailed info Groovebother! I have purchased some items already...HD3 PCIE, Mac Pro 5,1, 192 I/O, Sync and Midi I/O’s. On the hunt for chassis now so I appreciate the heads up on what to avoid!
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  #8  
Old 08-20-2020, 11:46 PM
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JFreak JFreak is offline
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Default Re: Looking to Put an Pro Tools 10HD system together

Why not just install that HD3 into your 5,1 and see if it is enough for you? It is at least on par with your previous system, plus with HD you can easily run native plugins as well. Maybe you don't need or want to buy that expansion chassis at all?
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  #9  
Old 08-23-2020, 11:57 AM
Sugarnutz Sugarnutz is offline
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Default Re: Looking to Put an Pro Tools 10HD system together

Some of this post is for future reference for others as to what can be done but glean what you can from it.

I'm kinda doing what you're doing for a dedicated remote tracking rig, I'm doing PCI-x in a Magma chassis with HD Core and 5 Accel cards (because that's what I got, not necessarily what I need). You've already got a setup that major studios have used for years in the 3 PCIe Accel cards and i92's. I have several 192's, both digital and analog, nothing wrong with them. I also picked up an Apogee AD16X-192 & DA16X-192 for reasonable along with a Rosetta 800-192. I'm on a 2008 Mac Pro 3.1 I got for real cheap like $120 cheap, upgraded the processors to 3.2GHz ($75) 32Gb RAM ($100) and a nice modern video card that will drive a 4K monitor ($300).

As far as plugins go you can still download Waves 9.3 which is the last version that supports TDM and right now you can get Waves Diamond bundle for $250 or less. You have to install your licenses using a newer version of Waves Central on a USB stick using a more modern system and then install the actual plugins using the 9.3 installer. Just instal the plugins, don't mess with your licenses using 9.3. I have an extensive Waves collection and most will work on this system. I'm running Pro Tools HD 10.3.8 which is recommended for Mountain Lion 10.8.5 and one of the last versions that support TDM. A lot of my other plugins have 32bit AAX versions that will also work.

It's a lot of work getting it all together for an older system like thee but they were workhorses in their day and still can be for some tasks. My main setup is a Mac I built with i9 9900K/64Gb/8Gb Video/Mojave/Pro Tools 2019.12 Ultimate/Avid TB Native/D-Command. I don't really want to drag any of that out of my home to track which is the way I work. I also have a 2015 MacBook Pro which can hold it's own with a lot of desktops for running Pro Tools. Options today are pretty much unlimited and your system & direction is a good one. Good Luck!

Last edited by Sugarnutz; 08-23-2020 at 07:23 PM.
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Old 08-25-2020, 02:53 PM
mightyduck mightyduck is offline
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Default Re: Looking to Put an Pro Tools 10HD system together

Quote:
Originally Posted by livstone View Post
I am preparing an upgrade from an expanded Mix TDM system that included a Mix Core, 7 Mix farms and two Sample Cell cards that were in an expansion chassis powered by a dual boot G4 MDD 1.25 computer. My interfaces are three Apogee AD8000 Special Editions. I love the sound of this system. I am looking to pick up one of the PCIE Mac Pro towers, 8 or 12 core and possibly use an expansion chassis but at the very least have an HD3 system inside the computer.

My biggest question is with the interfaces. I am sure the 192 I/O's are good units but how do they compare to the Apogees and which of the Apogees should I consider? My current Apogees have a very tape like sound to them and would like to somewhat replicate that sound in my new setup. I would need 16 analogue inputs and outputs and 8 digital in and outs.

Any assistance or guidance is most appreciated.

Thanks
Hi,

Try to use AVID or Digidesign interfaces with Pro Tools, for compatibility reasons, sound quality, and, chiefly, to avoid crippling the "compensate for input / output delay after record pass" feature, which, like it or not, is significantly important, [unless you are just doing a mastering rig].

TBH, I think the Aurora interfaces will get you there also.

I hope to participate a little more with this thread later, when I have a minute, as I am looking to do a similar thing.

I am sure there's lots of good info from the users on this forum regarding this topic.


Best,

mightyduck
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