CPTK gone in PT11 - Upgrade to PTHD11?

[bitanga]

Agreed, but do I really need to use that as a option, suing them? I also did not express myself clearly, I was told this by Eric B. (manager who wrote the email response) over the phone when I got a escalated call back. He also told me that he is going to find a solution/resolution, and instead I got a vague response to not an actual problem that I have with this whole upgrade for CPTK2 users debacle.

The number of people feeling shafted is ridiculous, there are posts all over the web about this. Avid needs to do right by their customers.

I never expected to see HD next to my ProToolsWhateverVersion when I boot it up but I expected to see PT11 with the CPTK2 features as I was promised. As I said I thought this would have been a 0$ upgrade for a few years.

So call it what you want HD, CPTK2 or what ever but don't freak in lie to me and shaft me and ask a thousand to upgrade...

Even if I paid the 1k I still would not have all the features as someone with a dedicated HD hardware and they have to pay 599$ to upgrade. So if I already paid $$$$ to get as close to HD features with out the hardware, it's highway robbery to discontinue the support for it and then ask 1k.

[sfs]

Originally Posted by JFreak

I have a HD3 system and my upgrade is in multiple thousands. So that is why I maybe don't respond very well to the "why I must pay 400 dollars more than XYZ" kind of posts :P

Planned obsolescence sucks, doesn't it?

However, we're not so much mad that we have to pay more than other users - we've been doing that for a long time - as we are mad that there was no warning and no reasonable expectation for the change. Your TDM cards were announced as being end-of-lifed with 11 before 10 came out; you've had time to consider, plan for, and budget for the upgrade (or decide to wait it out). Our lack of meaningful options on upgrade was announced for 11 the day they announced 11 - we're being railroaded and given hardly any notice of abruptly needing not only $400 more than users with similar feature sets, but $700 more than any of us are likely to have budgeted. For most users of CPTK, the entire reason we have the product is that $700 is a larger amount of money to us than we'd like to admit.

If this had been announced along with the TDM EOL decision, there would have been some grumbling - much like the TDM users have made - but there would have been time to prepare. This is an abrupt and dramatic change from what was reasonable to expect based on what was previously advertized.

Plus, this is Tax Day in America, and a lot of us self-employed people are paying a fairly large amount to the IRS today. The idea of yet another large payment right after the federally-mandated one comes as a poorly-timed shock to already sensitive systems.

[Righty27]

Originally Posted by nigelpry

Righty, there is a lot of merit in your ... there should only be one version of pro tools ... crusade.

Please don't think my lack of comment on it up to now means I disagree. I just think that it is so unlikely an option to be agreed by Avid that when I read about the suggestion I tend simply to switch off.

... bit delayed but thanks for this Nigel! Whilst I agree that my suggestion may be considered wishful thinking by users programmed into Avid's traditional model, and could even annoy those who have paid for features that others would now get for 'free', this is better than annoying other users by not giving them what they have already paid for.

It sounds like Avid have been coding PT11 for around three years - whilst some key product decisions will have been made ages ago, as 64-bit PT got closer to launch, it will have been increasingly hard to change key decisions in the design/model. So the product of all of this will have been heavily influenced by old Avid thinking.

The new CEO and his team will have inherited many fait accomplis (remember, not just Pro Tools), so what I would like to see is some sign that they recognise this issue and plan on doing things differently from now on - it's not 'if' they encounter these issues but how they deal with them when they arise ... some may not stick around if this is the way forward for our investment, whatever the $, in Pro Tools.

In my opinion, selling a premium DAW (actually PT vanilla, although our high-end DUC colleagues may understandably view this with a little contempt) which is not the 'best that it can be' in today's market and forcing high-end users requiring something as basic today as surround back to Avid dongles, is unwise. HD hardware should compete in the DSP space for the high-end with alternatives e.g. from UA, on the merits of price/performance only for those who require the horsepower. But we don't have the benefit of seeing the best/worst case business scenarios, market intelligence, etc. that those who took these decisions based them on.

Mr. CEO could make a historic DUC post no. 1 - you'd think he has someone tracking post-PT11 launch feedback like this thread and reporting back to him ... if not reading this directly. Tell us what you think - if you are happy with your company's decisions, stand by them publicly ... but let users plan based on transparency not coercion, and move on!

[Righty27]

... and Russ from Pro Tools Expert has posted a feature comparison between vanilla and HD. Looks the same as the preliminary one we saw previously in that it does not mention disk cache, since 'confirmed' as HD only, but again not clear from the very document designed to articulate the differences!

http://www.pro-tools-expert.com/home...n-a-chart.html

[Kurzweiler]

Originally Posted by Righty27

... bit delayed but thanks for this Nigel! Whilst I agree that my suggestion may be considered wishful thinking by users programmed into Avid's traditional model, and could even annoy those who have paid for features that others would now get for 'free', this is better than annoying other users by not giving them what they have already paid for.

It sounds like Avid have been coding PT11 for around three years - whilst some key product decisions will have been made ages ago, as 64-bit PT got closer to launch, it will have been increasingly hard to change key decisions in the design/model. So the product of all of this will have been heavily influenced by old Avid thinking.

The new CEO and his team will have inherited many fait accomplis (remember, not just Pro Tools), so what I would like to see is some sign that they recognise this issue and plan on doing things differently from now on - it's not 'if' they encounter these issues but how they deal with them when they arise ... some may not stick around if this is the way forward for our investment, whatever the $, in Pro Tools.

In my opinion, selling a premium DAW (actually PT vanilla, although our high-end DUC colleagues may understandably view this with a little contempt) which is not the 'best that it can be' in today's market and forcing high-end users requiring something as basic today as surround back to Avid dongles, is unwise. HD hardware should compete in the DSP space for the high-end with alternatives e.g. from UA, on the merits of price/performance only for those who require the horsepower. But we don't have the benefit of seeing the best/worst case business scenarios, market intelligence, etc. that those who took these decisions based them on.

Mr. CEO could make a historic DUC post no. 1 - you'd think he has someone tracking post-PT11 launch feedback like this thread and reporting back to him ... if not reading this directly. Tell us what you think - if you are happy with your company's decisions, stand by them publicly ... but let users plan based on transparency not coercion, and move on!

http://www.televisual.com/news-detai..._nid-2692.html

Read some words from CEO on this link

[nigelpry]

Righty ... asking for a real Avid employee, an exec no less, in fact THE exec that matters, to make a statement here ... you're so on the mark with that.

I, for one, as I've said previously, think Avid are at something of a crossroads here. If they don't remedy the situation, they risk alienating a huge body of most loyal Pro Tools users, who have, I would argue, probably achieved more in unpaid marketing of Pro Tools to broaden it's user base than Avid's own marketing team.

If Pro Tools users start walking away, and, more importantly, stop recommending it to other people they interact with, the user base will descend into an unstoppable downward spiral.

I personally have recommended it to quite a selection of people I know, and can say, from a quick mental head count, that there are at least 14 pro tools users who would not be using it had I not introduced it to them. 4 of those own CPTK. Most have 003s, a couple have 003 racks, and two have m-box2s. None of them had ever seen pro tools before I showed it to them.

If other people here have had similar experiences, or maybe were on the receiving end of advice to buy pro tools, think how much Avid's current user base has grown on the back of our marketing on Avid's behalf.

As someone else said, Avid are privileged to have use as their customers.

As a little aside, sorry you didn't understand red herring, I see someone else has informed you of its meaning. And I'm really sorry that your upgrade costs will be much higher than mine, because your current hardware won't run PT11.

As someone else said, at least you had plenty of warning. I suppose the bigger question is ... is it really true that there was no way to achieve TDM HD working with a 64bit Pro Tools? Was it technically not possible, or is this another marketing/business strategy decision? Pondering that must really get to you, you have my sympathy.

Of course, you do have another option. You could move to using third party hardware, you'd still be able to upgrade the software to PT11HD, seeing as you are already an HD owner. It might not be your preferred option, but it would be cheaper. It all depends on what compromises between performance and price point you are willing to accept.

Thanks also for acknowledging that your own personal upgrade nightmare might have been colouring the tone of your comments. It's understandable, but I had to say something.

[Kurzweiler]

Q2. After all the recent cutbacks, is Avid now lean enough to begin growing again?
As a company we're in pretty good shape. We have virtually no debt and generate cash. But we need to be smarter about the way we invest. We want to work more closely with our community and open up a continuous loop of dialogue. We want our users to be like football fans and have that same level of enthusiasm as they do for their team.

http://www.televisual.com/news-detai..._nid-2692.html

Q3. Is good too. I for one am seriously lacking enthusiasm. I'm angry.

[bitanga]

I just saw the comparison chart and the very things I need from CPTK2 are not in PT11 standard.

This comes after a rep Eric B. from avid told me that those features are in pt11. I mean I asked this question 3 times since it would end my frustration right there and only after the 3rd time I asked, he said "...I am sure, but not 100%"...

Well seems to me that Eric was 100% wrong as not ONE feature is the PT11 standard.

So yes you can say, that I am a fool for trusting Avid on the longevity of the CPTK2 when I inquired about it, but I simply won't let them roll over me.

[bitanga]

You can not sell a feature set that enables HD features, then end the support for that, then ask for 1K to have those features again.

You can call bananas oranges but they are still bananas...

[nigelpry]

I love the CEO's comments in paragraph 4 of the answer to question one in that interview ...

quote ...

Now we've got Media Composer and Pro Tools within a common engine, we can add to this. We can bring the connection between the video editor and audio edit much closer. The vision now is for the customer to be able to pick and choose what they want in a modular video and audio system.

end quote

Surely this sounds like their should be a variety of toolkit options, to allow the customer to pick and choose what they want!

It actually makes me even more convinced that the focus of CPTK owners at the moment should be to convince Avid that CPTK withdrawal is a mistake, and one that should be rectified.

Maybe, in addition to CPTK, Avid should be offering other limited toolkits focused on specific suites of extras , and even individual 'extras' where they are significant (eg surround mixing). This idea was suggested by someone else earlier in this thread or another similar thread. It looks like you had the right idea.

So, come on Louis (apologies for the informality, no offence intended), tell us what you are thinking!

I'd be happy at an official Avid comment that says 'give us a bit of time. but don't worry, we're going to come up with a solution that addresses the issues raised.' That would certainly quell the ill-feeling that currently exists.

I've already suggested a fully workable solution ...
1) Estimate the time it will take to re-engineer CPTK style feature unlocking back into pro tools ... maybe it will be an 11.1 or 11.2 release, or maybe its complex enough that it will have to wait until V12.0
2) Issue temporary HD licences to allow current CPTK licence holders to use CPTK functionality in PT11.0
3) When the corrected software is released, those temporary HD licences will time out, and either ... make it so existing CPTK licences work again, or replace them with new CPTK style licences.

As I've also already said, arguably there are sufficient 'new' HD features in PT11 (metering is an obvious one, advanced video editing another) to warrant a new CPTK3, with an upgrade fee to get it. Avid's pricing of that upgrade would determine how many people would do the upgrade.

In this case, though, the programming would be more complex, as it would need to allow existing CPTK licences to unlock the existing CPTK feature set. And, given the aggravation caused, it would be a nice goodwill gesture to offer all the new HD features with the existing CPTK licence.

Stage one though is, tell us you are working on determining a solution. Then, tell us what you propose. You'll soon find out what we think of your proposal. Hopefully, we'll think you are treating us fairly, and that will do much to to begin the restoration of Avid's reputation.