Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Legacy Products > Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-13-2009, 12:48 PM
Dr. J Dr. J is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: All Over
Posts: 354
Default midi controller(s) latency? PT8

Mac Pro 2X2 8 Ghz Quad-Core, 4 Gig RAM
PT 8
Re-Wire and Reason 3.0.5

Using M-Audio Keystation 88 (Brand New)
E-Mu XBoard 49 (1 yr old)
Alesis QS8.1 (older)


Plugging in the M-Audio and XBoard with usb to front of Mac Pro.
Alesis is sing a Midi In and Thru to Usb connector to front of Mac Pro.

Two main problems.
The first is latency.
Extreme with Alesis, less with M-Audio, virtually none with X Board (which is ironic, considering it's the cheapest)

Second Problem is tone. Each controller sounds very different with the exact same patches in Reason. (using a Yamaha C7 for comparison)
The E-Mu sounds the most "correct", the Xboard, then the Alesis.

When I'm in reason, just hitting the identify controller function.
There are no specific drivers that i could find on the web for any of these controllers, they all say they are class compatible.


Is there something else I should be doing to set these up correctly?
__________________
jay@jayriggs.com
www.jayriggs.com
www.fifty-fiftymusic.com


Turn Me Up!™ – Sign Up Now to Bring Dynamics Back to Music (www.TurnMeUp.org)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-13-2009, 04:17 PM
bpert bpert is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 143
Default Re: midi controller(s) latency? PT8

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. J View Post
Mac Pro 2X2 8 Ghz Quad-Core, 4 Gig RAM

Two main problems.
The first is latency.
Extreme with Alesis, less with M-Audio, virtually none with X Board (which is ironic, considering it's the cheapest)

Second Problem is tone. Each controller sounds very different with the exact same patches in Reason. (using a Yamaha C7 for comparison)
The E-Mu sounds the most "correct", the Xboard, then the Alesis.

When I'm in reason, just hitting the identify controller function.
There are no specific drivers that i could find on the web for any of these controllers, they all say they are class compatible.


Is there something else I should be doing to set these up correctly?
1. I would try upgrading to Reason 4 for one since it is the latest version. Also try using the MIDI offset feature...

2. Each controller sounds different because each one has its own velocity curve or multiple selectable ones (e.g. Korg Triton). A velocity curve is exactly what it sounds like. It basically lets you remap the function which maps the strength you hit the key to the volume the note plays. I don't know anything about your particular controllers but some controllers do have selectable curves. If not, there are some older "MIDI velocity curve changer" freewares but none that run on your current os. If you have an older computer lying around or a Windows machine, do a search and see if you can get your velocity curves the way you like them...
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-13-2009, 04:48 PM
DigiTechSupt's Avatar
DigiTechSupt DigiTechSupt is offline
Avid
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Worldwide
Posts: 33,623
Default Re: midi controller(s) latency? PT8

Quote:
Alesis is sing a Midi In and Thru to Usb connector to front of Mac Pro.
Not quite clear on what you're doing there - can you be more specific?

Quote:
Two main problems.
The first is latency.
Extreme with Alesis, less with M-Audio, virtually none with X Board (which is ironic, considering it's the cheapest)
There's a couple things that could be going on here. Latency is determined by the hardware buffer size, however you can also have some latency due to MIDI or USB data transfer speeds, but typically we're talking in the 1-3ms range - less for USB devices, moreso for MIDI connections.

Quote:
Second Problem is tone. Each controller sounds very different with the exact same patches in Reason. (using a Yamaha C7 for comparison)
The E-Mu sounds the most "correct", the Xboard, then the Alesis.
There is NO way that is happening. It's just not physically possible. The only difference you could be hearing are velocity differences - one keyboard may have a different velocity curve than the other, but the fundamentals of the sounds being produced by Reason can on no way be affected by the controller keyboard model. Whatever you're hearing has to be chalked up the the possible velocity curve differences. Nothing else would explain it.
__________________
Avid Audio Tech Support
Help us help you - read this before posting
Support FAQ
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-16-2009, 08:41 PM
Dr. J Dr. J is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: All Over
Posts: 354
Default Re: midi controller(s) latency? PT8

I meant the Alesis is "using" a midi in and thru on the keyboard end and a usb on the computer end.

I did figure out that the Alesis does have velocity setting inside it, and that changes the intensity of the sound, but what is weird is both the E-Mu and the M-Audio are plain controllers and have no on board settings and they have different affect on the sound.

Using both Reason and in Pro Tools own Mini Grand patch, the E-mu is super loud and bright (like in no velocity difference) and the M-Audio, has more soft and heavy sensitivity. Sounds better. Maybe that's just the quality of the unit. But there are no settings on the unit to change that, and none in the PT or reason software either, as far as I know. I guess I assumed that if it was a straight control device they would all be the same, like a standard.


Anyway, the only way I found to get rid of latency on all 3 devices was to put the Hardware buffer down to 64 samples.
But then something really weird happens.

The session freezing while playing back, or even when not playing at all, but just playing the controllers volume fader. Specifically when using either the DB-33 or the Reason hammond, I'm fine just playing the keys, but as soon as i move the volume fader on the controller up or down, the sessions freezes and repeats 1 bar then quits and gives me an error. Unless I wasn't playing the session, If i was just stopped and playing the controller the same skipping and stop thing happens, but with no error message.

The error message is: You are running out of CPU power. Remove some RTAS plug-ins or increase the CPU Usage Limit in the Playback Engine dialog. (-9128)

But this makes no sense at all, since the only RTAS I have open is this one instrument track of either reason or PT mini grand, and the system usage says I'm not using more than 39% of the computer when the freeze occurs. I bumped up the CPU usage to 90% from the normal 85% I always use, but no help.

The only thing that fixes this is putting the Hardware Buffer back to like 1024, but then I get the key latency on all controllers...AHHHH!


I tried this in several different sessions, same problem everywhere.
I have to believe that somewhere out there there is a studio using midi controllers in Pro Tools with no key latency and able to use a volume fader on an organ.

I guess what I'm looking for is a way to leave my Hardware Buffer at 1024 and still get rid of the key latency of a USB and/or Midi to USB control device...

Help.....
__________________
jay@jayriggs.com
www.jayriggs.com
www.fifty-fiftymusic.com


Turn Me Up!™ – Sign Up Now to Bring Dynamics Back to Music (www.TurnMeUp.org)
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-03-2013, 10:17 AM
DDBass DDBass is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 17
Default Re: midi controller(s) latency? PT8

Jay,

I realize this is an old thread but just curious if you ever found a solution to your latency issue. I'm experiencing a similar issue using PT 10, mini grand and other soft synths in the expansion pack. My controller is a brand-new novation SK MarkII.

Any help is appreciated.

Thx,

D
__________________
Macbook Pro
OS X 10.8
2.8 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
4GB RAM
Protools 10.3
Digi 003 Rack + Factory
MOTU 828 MkII
Glyph GT050Q
Novation SLK MkII
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Roland TD-11 V Drums As Midi Controller Latency Issues mingles20 MIDI 5 08-20-2013 08:22 AM
Latency with midi controller visionstudios macOS 3 01-15-2013 01:27 AM
dr 770 (boss dr rhythm 770) as midi controller/midi output to 11r midi input yellow Eleven Rack 1 05-04-2012 03:33 PM
Setting up a USB/Midi Controller while using a tascam audio/midi interface disabledpro001 macOS 5 03-30-2012 07:06 AM
Midi Latency, only with my new controller... Monty_python 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Win) 1 12-23-2009 02:43 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:09 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com