Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Pro Tools Software > Pro Tools 2019

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #51  
Old 05-22-2019, 02:08 PM
Cheesehead Cheesehead is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: London
Posts: 584
Default Re: HDX vs Native

Quote:
you shouldnt find HDN any different than HDX1

That isn't true in my experience, sound01 will find he can open larger sessions on HDN than on HDX1. That's what I found.
Just today I opened a large film session that was running on HDX3 on my 2019.5 Native rig with no problems. Those extra voices are brilliant!
__________________
Mac Pro 6,1 12 core, OSX 10.12.5, HD-Native TB, Trinnov MC, 888 IO, 192 IO, Sync HD, AJA IO XT, MC Mix, PT Control, Eucon 19.5, PT 2019.5
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 05-22-2019, 02:45 PM
JFreak's Avatar
JFreak JFreak is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Tampere, Finland
Posts: 16,337
Default Re: HDX vs Native

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesehead View Post
open larger sessions on HDN than on HDX1
Well for now that is true: with 2019.5 HDN has 384 voices whereas HDX1 still has the original 256 voices until Avid releases the firmware update that should bring extra voices for HDX as well.

But in theory HDX3 session can have 768 voices and opening that on HDN will only open first 50% in case one hasn't bought three extra voice packs now available... (and once HDX gets the voice update, HDN system would need 6 extra voice packs to match maxed out HDX3 session)
__________________
Janne
What we do in life, echoes in eternity.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 05-22-2019, 03:46 PM
sound01 sound01 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: London
Posts: 87
Default Re: HDX vs Native

Quote:
Originally Posted by justinhill View Post
Latency is the inherent delay between asking a question and getting a useful answer. In this system, the background noise isn't part of the signal; you have to listen to it first.
Hahahaha. Perfect, thank you.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 05-22-2019, 03:57 PM
sound01 sound01 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: London
Posts: 87
Default Re: HDX vs Native

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesehead View Post
That isn't true in my experience, sound01 will find he can open larger sessions on HDN than on HDX1. That's what I found.
Just today I opened a large film session that was running on HDX3 on my 2019.5 Native rig with no problems. Those extra voices are brilliant!
Thanks, it’s strange that I couldn’t run a full session, which had over 256 tracks, on my hdx1 2019.5 rig without tracks becoming inactive but my colleague could run it on his 2018 HDN rig with no problems, nothing was inactive.

It’s as if his HDN system can allocate voices, as and when they were required, rather than it being set by the actual track layout. Does it allocate busses differently? Am I missing something in the manual.....?

On another note. Anyone want to buy an HDX card? 1 careful driver.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 05-22-2019, 05:20 PM
BScout BScout is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,933
Default Re: HDX vs Native

Quote:
Originally Posted by sound01 View Post
Thanks, it’s strange that I couldn’t run a full session, which had over 256 tracks, on my hdx1 2019.5 rig without tracks becoming inactive but my colleague could run it on his 2018 HDN rig with no problems, nothing was inactive.

It’s as if his HDN system can allocate voices, as and when they were required, rather than it being set by the actual track layout. Does it allocate busses differently? Am I missing something in the manual.....?
Yes. You are missing something. HDX uses a DSP mixer. That means voices, bussing, sends, delay, side-chain delay, etc are handled on the card. That's the trade-off for the extremely low latency (and is also why some features are HDX only -- the voices are reserved in the HDX mixer which can double one track's voice count like with punch in and out of cascaded tracks.) Native plugins on Master and Aux tracks consume voices (because the voice use to shuttle from the DSP mixer to the native processor and back.)
So you can use up your voices on an HDX1 system.
On HDN, there is no DSP mixer so everything stays in one place on the native processor. There are some in the post world who would like the ability to define what the HDX card is used for (DSP plugins only, no mixer for instance.)

Quite frankly, other than the low latency tracking and the additional features unlocked, HDX1 is kind of a dumb purchase. HDX2 is where things get interesting.
__________________
Pro Tools Ult 2019.6, HDX 3, MTRX/SPQ, HD OmniMac Pro 5,1 - 3.06 GHz 12 core - macOS 10.13.6RAM 64GB, SSD 4 x 2TB, GPU GTX 980 4GB
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 05-22-2019, 08:10 PM
LDS LDS is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 627
Default Re: HDX vs Native

Quote:
Originally Posted by JFreak View Post
Yea, so unless I participate in a blind test where I can pick a difference between 2ms and 3ms rtl I still think the difference is irrelevant and as long as you stay safely below 10ms there is no REAL problem for anyone
The problems arise based on the precedence effect, where essentially our brains will mash together the original sound and the delayed sound into one event if the delay between them is small enough, giving preference to the first arriving sound. How small that delay needs to be depends on the type of sound, with faster transient, shorter sounds having a much smaller window for the precedence effect - somewhere between 0 and 5ms. Slower, longer sounds might be somewhere up to 20ms or 30ms. It is when the delay between those two sounds exceeds the period of time that are brain applies the precedence effect that latency ultimately becomes a problem. Because it is perception based, it is probably a quite individual thing. It also makes single sound based latency a different kettle of fish, like playing a VI with midi or a guitar with the amplifier 10 meters across the room. Our brains aren't inflicting what essentially seems to be a psycho-acoustic flight or fight response in those scenarios.

The precise benefit of HDX is that it is a guarantee of latency. It's base RTL will be at least 4 times better than HDN. Native is certainly capable of low latencies, but it isn't guaranteed. The 3ms of RTL for HDN is dependant on the actual session and system that runs it. That is precisely why so many other interface developers still include their own hardware monitoring paths.
__________________
littledevilstudios.com.au

Pro Tools Ultimate 2018.12. OSX 10.13.6. HDX. Avid Omni. Mac Pro 5,1 12x 3.33Ghz. 64Gb. 4x mSata SSD Drives + 4x HDD. Blackmagic Intensity PCIe. ATI Radeon HD5770.

Free Lexicon 224XL Impulse Responses
Free Sony DPS-V77 Impulse Responses
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 05-22-2019, 08:52 PM
YYR123's Avatar
YYR123 YYR123 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Austin TX
Posts: 13,652
Default HDX vs Native

Quote:
Originally Posted by justinhill View Post
All I know is that when the drummer is waving at the window and calling "bit of a delay in the cans, mate - can you do something about it please...".

Funny story, a few years ago I dropped some cash down and purchased an HDN rig with a HDio 8x8 system used.

I was thrilled b/c I was gonna get closer to having less problems (better functionality) (so I thought)

I got it all setup and had my 8-10 year old daughter come in and overdub a vocal on a session I was working on.....

First thing she tells me “it sounds weird in the headphones, like a delay”

Omg took all the air out of my ballon

I sold it a year or so ago, when i found a killer deal in a HDX card - I won’t be moving anytime soon - no headphone delay
__________________
Daniel
HDX - PT12.5.1 - HD I/O 16x8x8
Win10-Pro (v1709)- 6 Core i7-6850k - ASUS X99 Deluxe ii
D-Command Main Unit - 'Ole Blue


http://www.sknoteaudio.com/ plugins rock and are affordable.

Last edited by YYR123; 05-22-2019 at 10:28 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 05-23-2019, 11:11 AM
Eric Lambert's Avatar
Eric Lambert Eric Lambert is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,754
Default Re: HDX vs Native

Quote:
Originally Posted by YYR123 View Post
Funny story, a few years ago I dropped some cash down and purchased an HDN rig with a HDio 8x8 system used.

I was thrilled b/c I was gonna get closer to having less problems (better functionality) (so I thought)

I got it all setup and had my 8-10 year old daughter come in and overdub a vocal on a session I was working on.....

First thing she tells me “it sounds weird in the headphones, like a delay”

Omg took all the air out of my ballon

I sold it a year or so ago, when i found a killer deal in a HDX card - I won’t be moving anytime soon - no headphone delay
Something was wrong with your configuration as you shouldn't have received complaints. I even paid close attention to the existence of this effect yesterday while tracking (after having read this thread and curious to know if I'd merely adjusted to it) and noticed no noticeable delay. With earlier versions of PT and Native hardware, when not properly configured, yes, but not today, and not within the past few years.

At one point we'd even tested this by recording the headphone returns and comparing them to the source. The delay was miniscule, and not unlike what we were accustomed to after years of DSP cards. Again, if talent is complaining about delay in the cans, something needs to be addressed, but not Native as a platform. Thousands of people are doing this without issue.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 05-23-2019, 02:00 PM
glogulus2003 glogulus2003 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 15
Default Re: HDX vs Native

I recently had to move back to using my HDN temporarily for tracking and I hated it. From my experience, I've not had a great time tracking using HDN even at the lowest buffer settings. This was especially true when sending output to a headphone that might use an aux for reverb and other effects for vocal tracking. So, a few years ago I took the plunge and bought myself an HDX card. Now I've got two. Probably way overkill for my purposes, but I don't have to worry about how it's going to sound when tracking. Works pretty much perfect every time, and then when it's time to mix I can use either native or dsp plugins. I for one am happy I went HDX. Probably will use these cards until they fail because it doesn't seem like Avid will do another hardware platform anytime soon.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 05-23-2019, 02:09 PM
JFreak's Avatar
JFreak JFreak is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Tampere, Finland
Posts: 16,337
Default Re: HDX vs Native

Quote:
Originally Posted by glogulus2003 View Post
it doesn't seem like Avid will do another hardware platform anytime soon.
How so? Historically HDX is ancient and should be replaced with some kind of "accel" version soon..

Though this supposedly coming voice upgrade is going to be a kind of upgrade but still.. history says anytime soon (though don't hold your breath)
__________________
Janne
What we do in life, echoes in eternity.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FS: McDSP Analog Channel Native V5, 6020 Ultimate EQ Native V5 soundroad Buy & Sell 31 03-21-2016 06:03 AM
Does HD native or native native disable plugins when monitoring inputs? BasketCase Pro Tools HDX & HD Native Systems (Mac) 7 05-20-2013 08:48 AM
FLUX Elixier V3 AAX Native & DSP + Freeware Bittersweet V3 AAX Native & DSP released psmworld AAX Plug-ins 18 01-31-2013 04:16 PM
SSL4000 native/ Renmaxx native/ DUY everpack native!!! cary chilton 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Win) 3 03-22-2007 07:58 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:55 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com